Terrorists take 40% of the vote in Palestinian elections

if israel refuses to fund the PA with the 50 mil a month or so they are required to...isn't that violating international law?

given that they still are the occupier they are forced to provide basic services to the occupied people. they do this by shelling out a check to the PA. if they dont do this they are breaking law. i want a resolution.

 

Here's the problem: if the West refuses to provide some sort of aid to the Palestinians, then the Iranians and the Saudis and everyone else will move in and fill that void, no problem as far as Hamas is concerned. However, that would be disasterous for us and everyone who wants peace in that region, because the only leverage we have historically had with the Palestinians was the fact that they relied on some form of economic aid to keep them functioning. That aid could be conditional, we could insist on receipts and other things to make SURE that the money is allocated proparly and not for something of which we don't approve, we could insist on having a third party (NGOs, for example) monitoring and spending that aid as they see fit; there are a bunch of ways to get around the "funding Hamas" dilemma which we're faced with now. But to cut funds completely is to basically say, "We don't believe in your democracy, and this is a punishment for electing Hamas" is going to be incredibly counterproductive and stubborn thinking that will only help lead to more deteriorating conditions for all sides involved.

It's ironic that while we've been dissing all those "horrible, dictatorial" regimes in the region, once they democratize they elect nationalists with an agenda that conflicts with ours, they're usually religious radicals or Islamists, and in turn they're anti-secularism and liberalism. At the same time, those former leaders we helped overthrow (i.e. Fatah's "Old Guard", Saddam, and may be Mubarak and Assad in the near future) are secular and largely pro-Western, if nothing else because it helps them stay in power as long as "America looks the other way".

I am somewhat convinced that the way things unfolded in Iraq and Palestine are what's keeping the Neocons from aggressively pushing for regime change in Syria and Egypt, because they know the alternative likely won't be as favorable.

Anyways, an interesting case study in international relations and regional politics in the Middle East...

 

yeah and im sure egypt, pakistan, saudi and most of the lil gulf countries essentially have a free pass on democracy now. there is no way they allow real elections anytime soon and frankly theres no way the US would press them to. its one thing for hamas to win it would be another thing in the eyes of the US for a similar islamist regime to win in pakistan. (even though the chances of that are very very slim...but its a legitimate excuse now)

 

Palestinians voted for Hamas because of our refusal to give up their rights. But we are ready to make a just peace

Khalid Mish'al
Tuesday January 31, 2006
The Guardian

It is widely recognised that the Palestinians are among the most politicised and educated peoples in the world. When they went to the polls last Wednesday they were well aware of what was on offer and those who voted for Hamas knew what it stood for. They chose Hamas because of its pledge never to give up the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people and its promise to embark on a programme of reform. There were voices warning them, locally and internationally, not to vote for an organisation branded by the US and EU as terrorist because such a democratically exercised right would cost them the financial aid provided by foreign donors.

The day Hamas won the Palestinian democratic elections the world's leading democracies failed the test of democracy. Rather than recognise the legitimacy of Hamas as a freely elected representative of the Palestinian people, seize the opportunity created by the result to support the development of good governance in Palestine and search for a means of ending the bloodshed, the US and EU threatened the Palestinian people with collective punishment for exercising their right to choose their parliamentary representatives.

We are being punished simply for resisting oppression and striving for justice. Those who threaten to impose sanctions on our people are the same powers that initiated our suffering and continue to support our oppressors almost unconditionally. We, the victims, are being penalised while our oppressors are pampered. The US and EU could have used the success of Hamas to open a new chapter in their relations with the Palestinians, the Arabs and the Muslims and to understand better a movement that has so far been seen largely through the eyes of the Zionist occupiers of our land.

Our message to the US and EU governments is this: your attempt to force us to give up our principles or our struggle is in vain. Our people who gave thousands of martyrs, the millions of refugees who have waited for nearly 60 years to return home and our 9,000 political and war prisoners in Israeli jails have not made those sacrifices in order to settle for close to nothing.

Hamas has been elected mainly because of its immovable faith in the inevitability of victory; and Hamas is immune to bribery, intimidation and blackmail. While we are keen on having friendly relations with all nations we shall not seek friendships at the expense of our legitimate rights. We have seen how other nations, including the peoples of Vietnam and South Africa, persisted in their struggle until their quest for freedom and justice was accomplished. We are no different, our cause is no less worthy, our determination is no less profound and our patience is no less abundant.

Our message to the Muslim and Arab nations is this: you have a responsibility to stand by your Palestinian brothers and sisters whose sacrifices are made on behalf of all of you. Our people in Palestine should not need to wait for any aid from countries that attach humiliating conditions to every dollar or euro they pay despite their historical and moral responsibility for our plight. We expect you to step in and compensate the Palestinian people for any loss of aid and we demand you lift all restrictions on civil society institutions that wish to fundraise for the Palestinian cause.

Our message to the Palestinians is this: our people are not only those who live under siege in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip but also the millions languishing in refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan and Syria and the millions spread around the world unable to return home. We promise you that nothing in the world will deter us from pursuing our goal of liberation and return. We shall spare no effort to work with all factions and institutions in order to put our Palestinian house in order. Having won the parliamentary elections, our medium-term objective is to reform the PLO in order to revive its role as a true representative of all the Palestinian people, without exception or discrimination.

Our message to the Israelis is this: we do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people of the book" who have a covenant from God and His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be respected and protected. Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us - our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people.

We shall never recognise the right of any power to rob us of our land and deny us our national rights. We shall never recognise the legitimacy of a Zionist state created on our soil in order to atone for somebody else's sins or solve somebody else's problem. But if you are willing to accept the principle of a long-term truce, we are prepared to negotiate the terms. Hamas is extending a hand of peace to those who are truly interested in a peace based on justice.

· Khalid Mish'al is head of the political bureau of Hamas hoood88@hotmail.com
guardian

 

So I am confused: Palestinians want peace with Israel, but they elected Hamas anyways? Does that make it more likely that they were just throwing out the corrupt Fatah more than they were voting for Hamas? This poll confuses matters a bit.

I think given this poll, Hamas has but little choice to recognize Israel and move from there, since most Palestinians seem to want a just peace with Israel, I think even the more extreme elements have come to realize that Israel is a reality that they must live with.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138622512446&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

'75% of Hamas voters oppose destruction of Israel'

Three-quarters of Palestinians that voted for the Hamas say they are opposed to calls for the destruction of Israel, according to a poll published on Tuesday.

The Palestinian Authority's Al-Hayat Al-Jadeeda daily survey stated that 84% of Palestinians support a peace deal with Israel.

More than 75% of the peace-deal supporters voted for Hamas.

The survey was based on responses from 863 Palestinians from the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

 

This:

kind of makes this:

pretty meaningless (unless you can somehow conclude that they were not referring to Israel in the first section).

 

Essentially, Fatah lost this election rather than Hamas truly winning. Fatah has squandered foreign aid and donations and has done an awful job in building up the infrastructure of Gaza and parts of the West Bank. Second, their election system ended up being a problem for them. Half of the seats in the Palestinian parliament come from local elections for candidates. Fatah did two things wrong. 1)They spread out the elections over a period of months, allowing Hamas to focus in on specific regions one at a time since everything was so spread out. 2)Fatah was running 4 or 5 candidates in each district as opposed to Hamas which only ran 1 candidate. Naturally those 4 or 5 canceled each others vote and allowed Hamas to sneak through in regions that normally would support Fatah.

The other half of the seats in Parliament go through a parliamentary voting system where people vote for a specific party. Hamas barely won that category and Fatah probably couldve formed a government in coalition with other moderate parties but the other half of the vote killed Fatah and gave Hamas the majority needed to form a government.

Also one more thing to note is that since there is no state run school system, welfare/food distribution program, or even basic water distribution, much of the burden falls on others to fill in the void and you guessed it, Hamas does most of this. Yes, they're the ones who provide almost all soup kitchen type services, schooling and other essential services than any government should be providing. Consequently, many have more faith in Hamas because they've proven themselves to be much more disciplined and efficient with resources.

I'm sure most Palestinians want the land dispute with Israel resolved, but that's to abstract and too remote an issue for most. Getting basic necessities like food and shelter as well as a job really rank as higher issues and as a result got Fatah booted from power.

 

Good God, I was almost too worried to click this thread. Really, texx, do you have to get your pics - even the relatively non-disgusting ones - from rotten.com?

 

Getting them into politics is a good thing, then they have a voice and a reason to NOT blow themselves up.

DD