Terrorists take 40% of the vote in Palestinian elections

I love the speculation.

Is it possible they were just tossing out a corrupt party?

I hope the Ireland analogy is spot on. Perhaps this is an odd path to more peaceful times.

 

i don't think we can be sure of that.. are you 100% sure hamas should still have won if Iraq wasn't invaded and occupied and muslim/arab combatants tortured and humiliated?

 

Yesterday Bush had this to say about the Fattah loss...

Does that count only for other countries' elections? Or should we apply the same standard here in America?

 

I do have a serious question though.

How is it that Abbas can retain control of the governement if his party lost the election?

 

I am very well aquainted with several Arabs including natural citizens from the Middle East.

The truth that Americans fail to realize, is that to many Arabs, Hamas was not a terrorist group. They gave money to charities, they helped build schools, hospitals, etc. They used violent means in their eyes because diplomacy wasn't working.

I'm not saying that I agree with them or their methods, but it is American arrogance that leads to the rolling eyes over their election victories. Palestinians feel that they had no hope other than Hamas.

 

I'm sure they'd get at least 40% of the vote. Like others have said, they're the most easily recognizable opposition party and for a long time the Palestinians looked at Hamas as freedom fighters bent on ending occupation.

There were no infrastructure for social projects in place, so Hamas acted like the Salvation Army, Big Brothers, and Neighborhood Watch all rolled up along with their militant wing full of kidnappers and murderers.

While Arafat was casted by the West as a greedy and powerhungry despot, he was hugely popular and still is today. Clinton had a hand in that when he let Arafat get credit for bringing the Palestinians back to Gaza with the Oslo Accords.

As twisted as it really is, Hamas has been the political party for Palestinians for the past 50 years. Other countries with authoritarian leaders share the same problem when they don't allow legitimate opposition parties and terrorist factions fill in as a result.

With any American leader, the pressure has been to democratize Palestine so legitimate peace will follow. But there is enormous pressure in time and political goodwill that we've done the same easy thing over and over again... throw insane money at the issue, give the President's stamp of approval and leave the rest to hope.

 

Hamas was not a terrorist group?

...

So what in the world qualifies one as a terrorist group?

I mean I'm not blaming the people for their choice because it's their country and they were given the choice between 2 terrorist organizations, but WOW. They used violence against non-combatant targets to achieve political gains. How much more of a terrorist group can they be?

But in your defense, any future attack by Hamas will, by definition, no longer be a terrorist attack. It will be an act of war.

 

Please reread my post halfbreed. I did not say that I believed they were not a terrorist group. What I said was that many Arabs don't see them that way. They see a group of people that had their land seized and are being opressed by a ruthless and hateful Israeli government. They see a group that has worked to help these Palestinians survive and thrive. They see a group that was desperate to fight the opression any way they know how.

Again, I'm not saying this is my view or that it is a accurate view. It is however the view of many Palestinians.

 

abbas is the president. the presidential elections were last year. this is parliamentary elections. hamas will be able to pick a prime minister.

however hamas doesn't really want to be upfront too much. so they want fatah to support them. however some members of fatah dont want to be part of any hamas gov't since they'd only be there for show. (politically i think fatah shouldn't be part of it. however for the sake of unity and the greater good they should be)

 

No I understand that you don't think this. I just fail to realize how ANYONE can fail to realize it. They're subnational group attacking innocents to further a political cause. Regardless of whether or not you AGREE with them would seem irrelevant to me.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/27/palestinian.election/index.html

Furious protesters demand Palestinian leader quit
Three also wounded in Gaza gunbattle

Friday, January 27, 2006; Posted: 3:02 p.m. EST (20:02 GMT)

GAZA CITY (CNN) -- A mob of up to 2,000 furious Fatah supporters took to the streets Friday, burning cars, firing guns and demanding the resignation of Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas after the militant group Hamas trounced their party in parliamentary elections.

Abbas, the Palestinian Authority president, was in the West Bank, where he called on Hamas to form a new government after its election landslide snatched power this week from Fatah's ruling old guard.

Waving yellow Fatah flags in the flickering light of flaming bonfires, protesters swarmed around Abbas' home in Gaza City, where they shot in the air and accused him of being a "collaborator" with Israel. (Watch the flames and hear the gunfire -- :40)

"We don't want to join the Hamas government!" demonstrators chanted, according to The Associated Press. "We don't want corrupt leadership! We want reform, and we want to fire all the corrupt!"

The crowd moved to nearby Palestinian legislative buildings, where protesters set a van on fire and scaled walls, trying to force their way into the compound. Demonstrators outnumbered uniformed police on the scene.

Earlier, Abbas made a public request to Hamas leaders.

"I would ask the party that won the most votes in parliamentary elections to form the next government," Abbas said. "Until now, we haven't asked anyone to form the government. We are carrying on with contact with all factions, and of course we will ask the party that won the majority to form the government." (Watch how Hamas' victory affects Americans -- 2:50)

Post-election tensions also sparked fighting Friday in the Gaza town of Khan Yunis, with three people wounded in a gunbattle between supporters of Fatah and Hamas, Palestinian security authorities said.

On Friday evening, fresh clashes erupted in Khan Yunis between the two parties' supporters, wounding four, authorities said.

There also were scuffles Thursday between the groups' backers in the West Bank town of Ramallah, seat of the Palestinian government.

Many in the Palestinian government already have given up their posts, with Abbas accepting the resignation of Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei and the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority Cabinet also resigning, said Fatah lawmaker Saeb Erakat.

Hamas' victory in Wednesday's election drove the Mideast peace process into uncharted territory. (Watch struggle from making bombs to creating jobs -- 2:39)

Election officials said Hamas won 76 seats in the 132-seat Palestinian Legislative Council.

Fatah, which has been in power for about 40 years, won 43 seats, and a handful of fringe parties and independent candidates won the remaining 13, officials said. (How the power breaks down)

Abbas -- a co-founder of Fatah -- urged Hamas to keep peace negotiations moving forward, while Israeli and U.S. leaders indicated that little progress was possible until Hamas denounced violence and disarmed.

The changing of the Palestinian guard represents a stark shift in ideologies: Abbas has long been a conduit of the White House-backed road map to Middle East peace, including the so-called two-state solution proposing a Palestinian state alongside Israel. Hamas, however, has called for Israel's destruction, and the United States, Israel and the European Union considers it a terrorist organization. (A Hamas explainer)

Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy chief of the Hamas political bureau, said Friday that Abbas "has a political direction that we had never agreed with at any stage. Hamas' political ways and stands are known." But he said the group would do "what is best for the Palestinian people."

Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar, speaking outside a mosque Friday, said, "Israel has nothing to give for the Palestinian people."

He said it was a waste of time for the Palestinian Authority to speak with Israel and if Israel "has something to fulfill the basic demands of the Palestinian people concerning the occupied territories, concerning the detainees, concerning the question of Jerusalem and other national interests, we are going to re-evaluate these arguments."

Marzouk suggested the possibility of future discussions regarding disarmament, although he set a high standard. Responding to calls from Israel and much of the West for Hamas to disarm, he said, "Europe and the United States must ask Israel to withdraw from Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem according to international legitimacy before they ask Hamas to disarm."

The election results prompted Israel's Cabinet to hold an emergency meeting Thursday and to release a statement afterward saying, "The state of Israel will not negotiate with a Palestinian administration if its members include an armed terrorist organization that calls for the destruction of the state of Israel; in any case, Israel will continue to fight terrorism with a heavy hand, everywhere."

In Washington, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the "contradiction" of Hamas having "one foot in politics and one foot in terror" must be "resolved" as the political process in the region unfolds.

"There's a Palestinian constitutional process that is now under way in terms of the formation of a new government," McClellan said. "We'll see how that process unfolds and see how that government forms."

But he echoed President Bush's comments from Thursday saying, "our views are very clear when it comes to Hamas: we don't deal with Hamas because Hamas is a terrorist organization."

Bush -- whose Middle East policy touts support for emerging democracies -- said Thursday he would not deal with Hamas unless it renounced terrorism. (Watch Bush face tough questioning -- 5:37)

Likud party leader Benjamin Netanyahu, who is running for Israeli prime minister, said the Hamas victory is "bad news no matter how they dress it up" and likened the militant group to Iran, whose president also has called for the destruction of Israel. (Watch Netanyahu talk about what it means for Israel -- 7:23)

He said that for Israel to discuss peace seriously with Palestinians, Hamas would have to change its philosophy drastically. (The reaction to the election)

Israel reached out to two moderate Arab neighbors Friday, pushing for support in its confrontation with the new Hamas-led government.

Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert phoned Jordanian King Abdullah and Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, telling each that Israel is concerned about the results of the parliamentary elections, according to Olmert's office.

 

No matter how much 2004 screwed the Democrats, I'm still proud that there weren't any riots or looting....

 

Their land is illegally occupied. They're already at war.

 

so when a government put into power commits terrorist like activities it is considered war, and not terrorism? Maybe thats why israel gets off so easily on its "war crimes"

 

Good, Fatah needs that battle within its ranks to rid itself of the "Old Guard" who just cost them the elections. The younger guys in Fatah have much more credibility among the masses and are the only ones who could challenge Hamas in the future.

Fatah needs to go through major, major reforms.

 

This is a monumental failure of the Administration's foreign policy. Think about it... the current avowed goal (the goals have changed so often, it's hard to keep track) of the Administration's invasion and occupation of Iraq is to put a democracy, "in the heart of the Middle East," and to see that democracy spreads. The goal wasn't to get Hamas, with it's close ties to the theocracy of Iran, elected as the government of the Palestinian people, or to see religious fundamentalists with close ties to Iran elected to positions of power in Iraq, and yet that is what we are seeing. It appalls me. It should appall the Republicans that support Bush and his policies as well.

The spin on this should be a sight to behold.



Keep D&D Civil.

 

By almost EVERY definition of terrorism you will EVER find, state actions aren't defined as terrorism. They're considered acts of war. It's the definition of terrorism; otherwise we'd have nowhere to distinguish terrorism and war.

Most definitions of terrorism have the same requirements (though different wording):

1 - Subnational groups
2 - Non-combatant targets
3 - Desire for the attack to help achieve political goals

 

It's quite obviously the falt of the Democrats and their legion of liberal followers. If they only supported the war.

 

These people are sick.

 

Is that the Arab Klan? Going after the Jews as well?