Tensions over Palestinian evictions in East Jerusalem boil over

I agree with most of what you wrote here. But I still don't get anyone...I don't see anyone defending hamas?

ITs like if you critisize the chinese or israel governtemnte, Xi and Netanyahu or even trump woudl say you're insulting our country our people, politicians have a away of hiding things like that. REmember critisim of the IRaq war was met with you're insulting our soldiers our flag so on and so forth. Its easy to deflect, and it works in this way.

Most Gazans don't vote, they don't have an 'available' or accessible democracy. Those people are the ones losing their homes regularly, homes they grew up in, having their schools, hospitals burned down, having their kids and families left and right with no stability, then also having their businesses or any hope of organization and progress burned down. You're taking away education, health care, enterprise, while they also don't even have the freedom to leave the boards...this is in the very place they not only grew up, but their parents grew up too....This is their home. They are in uttere desperation and likewise in Saudi we're seeing them produce a famine that will rapture the yemeni people, the women and children are in dire situations....does that mean i'm justifying the act of terrorist in yemen? nah that is a deflection. NO one supports hamas by calling out the above. its a deflection. Likewise I want a strong and safe israel, but netanyahu has shown he just capitalizes on the age old history trick of fear and a common enemy for himself, he also will defelct that his tactics are a criticism of israel's ability to stay safe...if we listened to him we would've gone to war with iran way back in 2012

 

I haven't read the whole thread but from what I can see no one is outrightly defending Hamas but certainly there is a lot of excusing and justification of Hamas.

If you're talking deflection note how in the above how you're not actually critical of Hamas but writing about how bad things are in Gaza and then in Yemen and how Israel wants to go to war with Iran. You're even gone so far as to post a pic of Netanyahu but the context of that pic isn't directly related to Hamas. You're doing what you accuse of others. You're deflecting from what Hamas does by talking about other things, that are related but tangential.

This gets to my main point. Many find it impossible to talk about one side or the other without framing it in what the other side has done.

 

Is Gaza even bigger than Minneapolis?

hate to bring up the bigger galactic point of view
But the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

 

I've made this argument before that the US should pull aid to Israel. This isn't necessarily to punish Israel and I don't think it will lead to the destruction of Israel. Israel even without US aid has the most powerful military in the region and has nukes. As they've shown they are more than capable against united Arab armies. One part of history that is also forgotten is that in the Suez Crisis Israel acted specifically against the US and was still able to relatively easy seize the Suez Canal.

The problem that I see is Israel expansion and building settlements has made it almost to have peace by allowing the Palestinians to have a viable state. Building settlements and holding hostile territory isn't cheap. If Israel has to make a choice of controlling a more contiguous territory similar to the 1967 borders that will be easier than trying to control territory with a lot of Palestinians. While the US doesn't directly fund settlement building aid does make it possible for them to shift resources to build and defend settlements.

 

They should make the Middle East one big country and make these countries like states
Maybe like the EU except nobody serves bacon
Which is terrible

I mean it will help the crap countries like Yemen . Like they aren’t going ever be as wealth as the Emirates

 

About triple the land area and just over four times the population.

 

Given how destroyed Gaza is I might be able to get better falafel here in MN right now. In fact I know a place that is run by Palestinians by the U of MN.

 

This was a dream of Nasser and other Arab Nationalists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_...c: القومية العربية,and political union in the

 

I feel like this continues to change the goal post, from no one is outrightly defending hamas, to now its just too much context involved.

CAn you state any of the context involved that is not factual?

Can you state where that context excuses or justifies hamas? As I said, I guess to be more clear, I consider hamas to be a corrupt illegitamte leader who hasnt had an election in over a decade who has taken over the chaos of a dire situation to sustain their own power. I think palestine would be better off without them, I don't think the dire apartheid, abuse, and war crimes of netanyahu's administration justifies or does anything to defend hamas. I think hamas is better off as gone. IS that clear enough?

Its like someone in you're arugment saying yea you said this, but you need to say it more. thats just now being nit picking and changing the goal post of the rhetoric and in my opinion more deflection for the actual war crimes and terrible crimes of humanity towards women, children, innocent who have nothing to do with the politics of israel and netanyahu. Likewise, its as if I said saudi is also taking part in war crimes, they are terrible, women children an entire country is suffering a famine for their massive wholle over done aggressive attack on yemen and they say, well you're ignoring that iran has backing in yemen and excusigng them...no, no, thats not what I am talking about.

The what about ism and the other side stuff doesnt excuse it especially when I'm critical of both side, easily.

 

I'm not sure of pulling aid is the right move, Israels a strong partner, but pressuring their administration when they clearly need our help while they continue to abuse us. Yes they've been caught spying on us, yes they disregard even our democracy when netayahu ignored our chief diploment, President Obama and surpassed him togoto congress. Let alone meddling and putting wieght as a foreigner to help trump, isn't that what so many got mad at russia for? So why is NEtanyahu immune? bc we have a rightful friendship with israel? The country is bigger than netanyahu, if anything hes hurting our relationship and watering it for his own good. Just like our country is bigger tahn trump biden or whoever. The leaders can change, the countries will remain.

And Now the arabs states have a good relationship with them, guess what its not a religious thing. Saudi leadership is not religious, they just use religion to control their enslaved populace. Go figure now that they have an issue with iran, israel and saudi have a common enemy and all of a sudden palestine ain't that important to them outside of surface level speak

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/4/30/mbs-palestinians-should-accept-trump-proposals-or-shut-up

Yea, I don't think anyone is arguing against the right to defend. The issue is exactly what you said. The aggressive settlements, the deplacement of gazans who have lived their for centuries in a sham israel court deeming it a religious or military significant, demolishing their property and then even charging them for it. can you imagine what you would do if someone did that to your child hood family home, meanwhile also demolishing your hospital, kids school, neighbors kid and sayin well you gus are just by products hostages to hamas. Like i said, if a cop has a gun on a criminal with hostages in front of them, doesn't give them a right to throw in a bomb blow up all the kids and women and say, welp he was hiding behind those folks. Its not even a call for peace, its a call for surrender when their situation is hopeless. Electricity, water, enterprise, borders all controlled by israel. thats why its an apartheid state, thats why the former prime minister told bill clinton ver batim at this point the apartheid state will make israel less safe at this ponit with the settlments. but netanyahu continues to do whats best for himself, pandering towards a right wing coalition that has even said palestinian children are ok to kill bc they will be terrorist anyways, total dehumanizing type of 'savage' native american/black type mentality. So now if china says that about ughuir which they are doing terrbile things, will we look the other way since they are saying these are terrorist? When burma militia burned down adn raped rhongiya villages, they are saying these massively poor people are terrorist. When trump says blm is terrorist, so now arrest em all? See the slippery slope and in my opinion this is the massive deflection that hurts before you can even begin the conversation.

 

Better than Houston on any plaza off Harwin?

 

Nice. This was one of my favorite articles from way back in the day:

https://www.theonion.com/northern-irish-serbs-hutus-granted-homeland-in-west-b-1819566085



UNITED NATIONS–In a bold gambit hoped to resolve dozens of conflicts around the world, the U.N. announced Monday the establishment of Ethniklashistan, a multinational haven in the West Bank that will serve as a new homeland for Irish Protestants, Hutus, Serbs, and other troubled groups.

"For far too long, these groups have been locked in prolonged strife with their former neighbors, unable to achieve a lasting peace," U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said. "Now that these various peoples have a new homeland where they can find refuge, all the years of fighting and bloodshed can finally be put behind them."

Former Serbian leader Slobodan Milosevic, now presiding over a Serb settlement near the Jordanian border, was optimistic about the future. "All Muslim scum must die," he said. "Death to all enemies of Serbian purity!"

The various groups, transported to Ethniklashistan by a massive U.N. airlift, will share their new homeland with the roughly two million Palestinians and Israeli settlers who currently occupy the region. U.N. officials say the West Bank site was chosen for its centralized location, opportunities for tourism, and comfortable desert climate. These factors, combined with the already diverse cultural, ethnic, and religious composition of the area, offer "a unique opportunity for many international groups to live together in peace."

"This is truly a win-win situation," U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said. "War-ravaged peoples from all over the world finally have a place they can feel safe. And, for the Palestinians and Israelis already there, the presence of additional ethnicities should reduce any pre-existing stresses. Arabs and Jews will enjoy exposure to a glorious, multiethnic stew, and they will, in turn, have the opportunity to lead by example, serving as role models of peaceful coexistence."

Hutu leader Kagabo Ndadaye, who between 1994 and 1996 personally oversaw the machete deaths of more than 10,000 Tutsi Rwandans, echoed the positive outlook. "The glorious Hutu are the one pure race," said Ndadaye, speaking from a Hutu settlement near Hebron while eyeing a nearby Kurdish settlement. "All inferior mongrel peoples shall be put to the blade."

Though hopes are high for Ethniklashistan–a name created by a team of linguists who combined 17 different languages' words for "sanctuary"–the establishment of the new homeland has proven rocky. Of the more than 500,000 people relocated there so far, approximately 97 percent have responded with violent resistance, swearing oaths of eternal vengeance against U.N. volunteers conducting the forced relocations.

Bloodshed also marred the "Festival Of Human Brotherhood," a weeklong, nationwide event celebrating the founding of Ethniklashistan. On Monday, 11 people were killed in a skirmish between Basques and Sikhs near Nablus. The same day, six were killed and dozens injured on the streets of Bethlehem when Somalis and Greek Cypriots exchanged gunfire and grenades.

Dozens of shifting alliances have added to the confusion and chaos. In a pre-dawn border raid Monday, Burmese Karen rebels attacked a Tamil settlement. By late afternoon, the Karens were driven back by the Tamils, who were newly armed with Israeli anti-personnel missiles smuggled into the West Bank by Zionist fundamentalists who had allied themselves–some say only as a temporary ruse–with the Tamils.

On Tuesday, guerrilla fighters made up of an uneasy Palestinian-Papuan alliance attacked an Irish Protestant church near the Golan Heights, killing 121 Irish worshippers with nerve gas before being repelled by a nearby faction of Protestant-sympathizing Zapatista rebels from the Chiapas region of Mexico.

The violence continued that evening, when the severed heads of 20 Chechens were paraded through the streets of Jericho by Azerbaijani extremists. The killings are thought to be in retaliation for rocket attacks by a band of pro-Armenian Chechen rebels, who have thus far evaded Azerbaijani attempts to flush them out of their encampments in the hills with prolonged shelling.

Alarmed by the new nation's growing pains, world leaders have launched a large-scale international-aid effort to help Ethniklashistan get on its feet. Great Britain has pledged 12,000 peacekeeping troops, vowing to "pummel with rubber bullets, tear gas, and billy clubs anyone who dares threaten the Sons of Ulster." China has pledged 40,000 soldiers to supervise the 2,000-plus Tibetan Buddhists relocated to the region. Indonesia, Cambodia, Nigeria, and Afghanistan have also sent troops.

"There is always a period of transition and upheaval in the founding of a new government," President Bush said. "That is why an international humanitarian consortium of nations, including the U.S., France, Russia, Iraq, and North Korea, has pledged $2 trillion in military aid to the new nation. This way, all Ethniklashistanis, regardless of race, color, creed, or economic background, will have equal access to the state-of-the-art ordnance they need to defend themselves and their families during this initial period of instability."

Encouraged by such aid efforts, experts are confident that a lasting peace can soon be established among the rival Ethniklashistani groups.

"When you take that many long-suffering, war-torn groups and put them in the same place, how can you not have peace?" asked former president Jimmy Carter, who will lead talks among the various Ethniklashistani groups. "This hatred cannot possibly last long."

 

Wouldn't that be nice?

But that's like saying getting rid of religion and all the books and religious leaders that declared the land a holy ground. Can't happen with human.

A much more likely solution of unlikely solutions is a state that honors everyone with equal rights to have lasting peace. Everything else is just temporary peace until someone pisses off someone else and the only reaction is violence.

 

Yes. Yemen isn't directly related to what's happening in Gaza. Neither Hamas or the IDF are combatants in Yemen.
Netanyahu criticizing the Iran deal doesn't directly relate to Gaza. It's tangentially connected because of Hamas has been funded by Iran but there is no evidence that Iran's nuclear ambitions have anything to do with Gaza.

Why did you bring up things like Yemen or other things that are best tangential to the issue?

 

What I'm proposing isn't that we interfere in Israel's policies but that we don't fund them. If Israel want's to continue settlement building then it should be solely on them and they have to decide with limited resources if it's worth it.

 

Human beings are tribal and violent in nature
We’re not giraffes
The history of religion and tribal strife goes way back before the creation of Israel . Also , the Arab world says they care about the Palestinians but they don’t.

zero optimism that anything changes

 

Well Bibi's reign has ended. Though the new PM is right wing like Bibi, the coalition that got the new on5 the votes needed is rather diverse across all political ideologies and it seems like the new PM will have his hands tied in doing aggressive moves against Gaza for the foreseeable future because he can easily get voted out.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/13/isr...-in-new-government-ending-netanyahu-rule.html

 

thats reasonable, a lot of international anonymity is feuled by us by the settlements. Also, we give aid to countries all over the world to have a seat in the table and some influence so many angles to it.