Shaq has got the better FG, ppg, rpg and maybe even apg. Hakeem owns everything else. Shaq may end up winning more rings too. Both are dominant in their own unique way. Shaq with sheer force and size. Hakeem with quickness and finesse. But to me Hakeem is better for the simple reason that he accomplished so much despite so many adversities, so much disrespecting and doing so with humbleness and class rarely found in today's breed. ------------------ "The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait till the other is ready." -HDT
If the Dream was 7'2" and 300 lbs...or whatever that gorrilla's physical measurements are...he would average 30 a game. That's just rebounds. Don't get me started on how many points he would have. ------------------ "There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another which states that this has already happened." Douglas Adams
Easy there, Gascon...if he was that big, he would not be as quick or as agile, two qualities that has made him one of the greatest ever. But if you are saying "What if he were that size and as quick and agile as he is now?" All I can say is....WOW! ------------------ Behad Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS [This message has been edited by Behad (edited March 30, 2001).]
I think Dream's steals more than makeup for his .1 "efficiency" difference with Shaq. Steals/Game Hakeem - 1.78 Shaq - .73 Blocks/Game Dream - 3.19 Shaq - 2.71 Keep in mind that Dream's already passed his prime and has a had a few sub-par years (compared to his standards) while Shaq is at his prime and hasn't started his decline yet. It's hard to compare the 2 now, but in 5 or 6 years you'll probably see that Dream has better numbers. ------------------
Behad, it useless trying to tell these young pups about Russell. Russell was the best center ever. Everyone else fights for second. Watch ESPN Classic sometime. Winning and Greatness go hand in hand. 11 championships will never be matched. Oh, and does anyone know how tall Russell was? ------------------ "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."- (Aldous Huxley)
When was the last time anyone saw Shaq make a baseline fadeaway or any jump shot for that matter???? Exactly. Shaq is big...thats it. ------------------ "Chucky who?" Charles Barkley
Why should Shaq take a baseline fadeaway or a jump shot? ------------------ Founder and President of the Houston Homers Club(HHC) - Are you a homer? Join now! The Rockets will be NBA champions. Believe.
Originally posted by * : I never saw him play, but isn't he only like 6'10" - 6'11"? ------------------ "The idea of a band nowadays is five pretty boys, one with a tattoo, one with a shaved head, and on and on. I mean, I like Britney Spears, I think she's pretty, but I'm not from the Mickey Mouse Club. I'm from the Godzilla club!" ---Ozzy Osbourne
Russell was offensivelt inept. He was the greatest defensive center ever, but he was not the greatest ever. ------------------ Founder and President of the Houston Homers Club(HHC) - Are you a homer? Join now! The Rockets will be NBA champions. Believe.
13 year career (963 games) fg%-44% ft%-56% ok, so he was inept here 14,522 pts 15.1 avg per game 22.4 reb per game ------------------ "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."- (Aldous Huxley)
Five times the 6-foot-9 1/2 Russell was voted MVP. Four times he was the league's leading rebounder. He never finished higher than 15th in the league in point production. But Russell was not about scoring; he was about winning. "Shooting," Russell said, "is of relatively little importance in a player's overall game." ------------------ "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."- (Aldous Huxley) [This message has been edited by BobFinn* (edited March 30, 2001).]
No, back then they hacked him with what would be today a flagrant foul. They hammered Wilt. ------------------ Founder and President of the Houston Homers Club(HHC) - Are you a homer? Join now! The Rockets will be NBA champions. Believe.
Way worse. They only had 2 refs back in those days and they usually had bad eyesight and hearing to boot But Wilt did attempt almost 12,000 free throws in his career (making 6,000) so I guess they called some of them ------------------ "Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."- (Aldous Huxley)
And he went out and proved it with that FG% of his... lol. Bobo, I know you're a Celtic-lover, but you're still alright. I'm not old enough to remember Russell or watch his games, but I have seen him play. Russell was an extremely good defensive center. He very well could have been a better defensive center than Hakeem. But that was a different age. I know it's cliche and it's what everybody says, but it's true. The only center from those days I think would even remotely be as dominant today is Chamberlain. Dear Mr. Russell : Hakeem never said that shooting was of little importance, he went out and improved his shot because it was a weakness early in his career. He went from being a dunking machine to a machination of court war. He had every offensive weapon short of the 3 pt. shot in his payload. Oh, and he was pretty decent on defense, too. Dear Mr. Shaq : Hakeem wasn't the guy you wanted to hack at the end of the game because there was a stretch of years there where his crunch-time FT% was over 80%. He went from being a mediocre FT shooter to an above average one. Hakeem still stands in my book as the best all-around center I've seen. He could combat his opponent with power, speed, quickness, jumpers, fadeaways, determination, intimidation, defense -- he had it all. ------------------ "I hate being in the lottery as much as the next guy, but come on people, that's where we need to be right now. We still don't have all of the pieces" -- Gascon, in conjunction with Clutch's Lottery Generator, has fired the starter's pistol on this season's lottery race. Let the tanking begin! [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited March 30, 2001).]
I will take Hakeem over Russel. It is like the 4-minute-a-mile story. Top atheletes simply become much better in the past few decades. Russel can stay as the "greatest" center, but it is unlikely he is still the "best" ever. Of course I can be totally wrong since I never played with Russel. For a similar reason, I started this thread. While Hakeem will remain the greatest in my heart, I find it harder and harder to convince other people that Shaq will not be considered a better center if he plays healthy for a few more years. ------------------ "'Guys, stand on my shoulders. I will take you to the promise land.' That is what he does." ........ Sam Cassel on Hakeem in 95 playoffs
DoD, What about Jabbar, he does not have the glaring weaknesses that you ppoint out in Russel and Shaq's games. Where does he rank in your estimation? ------------------ "We messed with the Bull, and we got the horns." -- Larry Brown "quote" from AirBullard.com
I am trying to keep my posts to the same thread in order not to open new threads. Can someone compare Hakeem's fadeaways with MJ's? I think Hakeem's fadeaway is as good as his footwork, although he doesn't need it so often since he's got the dreamshake, while MJ's seems unstoppable. How about Duncan? Anyone thinks that he can eventually be nearly as good as Hakeem if he had been playing center? ------------------ "'Guys, stand on my shoulders. I will take you to the promise land.' That is what he does." ........ Sam Cassel on Hakeem in 95 playoffs
