Tee hee. Smoking "ban"

I thought this was a smoking thread? Now we are talking about meat?


Have they banned the smoking of meat?


DD

 

They can have my smoker when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

I have 3 racks of ribs and a 15lb brisket ready for Saturdays Cowboys/Texans game. Gotta get ready for the regular season.

 

this coversation should have taken place here:
http://bbs.clutchfans.net:80/showthread.php?t=133476&page=2&pp=20&highlight=vegans

i never got an answer to my last post in the thread.

 

I have never seen a person so full of himself. Your artsy fartsy vegan thing is a joke. You so claim that "I won't claim a higher ground than anyone else" yet you do nothing but insult my eating principles in the same breath. I think everyone else can see right through your crap. It's your pretentiousness that led us here. Get over yourself, please. It's excruciating.

 

Meowgi:

I wasn't rude to you or judgmental of you in any way until you started telling me I was selfish and inconsiderate and discriminatory (LOL, that's the best one) for turning down meat when offered. All I said was that "as little meat as possible" was zero meat. That apparently struck a real nerve with you and I suggest you look inward rather than to me to figure out why. I never told you what was the "right" thing for you to do, nor did I tell anyone else what I thought they ought to do or eat. You told me what I should be doing repeatedly.

Sishir:

giff and Max are right. I suggest you go back and read the exchange between the angry Buddhist and myself to figure out what got me so riled. You apparently misunderstood my position and consequently got on the wrong side of the argument. Your doctor story is a perfect replica for how I've responded when offered foods I don't eat, in every single occasion. My offense was not at being offered meat; it was at the suggestion that I'm some sort of creep for not accepting it. Since you seemed to have a hard time grasping that I resorted to hyperbolic metaphors I thought you might suss more easily.

I repeat that the only way in which I am ever offended vis-a-vis my diet is when someone righteously suggests I'm a jerk for adhering to it. It happens incredibly rarely and it has never in 20 years risen to the weird level Meowgi took it to.

 

You guys are acting like a bunch of smokers denied the right to light up.

 

I wasn't riled up at everyone, Fatty. And I wasn't riled up at you. I just have fun messing with you. It's not to do with anything in this thread. I always have fun doing it.

And I wasn't exactly comparing eating meat to those other things except to suggest that we all have things we will not do in order to avoid a host's discomfort. Maybe it's nodding and smiling, or even just failing to say anything contrary, when someone makes a racist joke (a much better example than any of my over the top ones). I am sure some would consider it disrepectful to tell a host you were uncomfortable with racist comments, but I would still do it even while I regretted causing the host discomfort. That's my feeling. Meowgi's or someone else's might be different. But I want to say again, I don't begrudge, disapprove or in any way think twice about what Meowgi (or anyone else) chooses to do in the situation of being offered food he doesn't want to eat. I only took issue with his characterization of his diet as including "as little meat as possible."

 

batman jones, do you care to address my last post?

 

What will get me riled up is your insinuation that "little meat as possible" isn't good enough. There is no other reason for you to make the remark. You had no idea for my reasons to do what I do yet you felt compelled to comment. I have looked inward and researched advice, and that's what made me come to my decisions. Again, we can all see through your humble vegan act. Your true colors shine vibrantly in this thread.

 

About the pregnancy thing? I think it's because a vegan diet is inadequate in providing needed nutrients (B vitamins being among the most difficult) and it is a real pain to get good protein in the preferred doses. I said before I don't think a vegan diet is a very healthy one. B12 is completely absent in any useful form and supplements are necessary in order to avoid serious health problems. I think a pregnant woman would be totally well served by a vegan diet plus fish (and maybe eggs), but if someone's body is telling them they need something else I think they should eat it. If they have an ethical concern, I think they should weigh that against the importance of health -- especially if a baby's involved.

I've often felt run down on account of my diet and, in a very abstract way, I've considered altering it in some way. One day I might choose to do that. But if I do it will be a difficult personal choice and it certainly won't be made in order to avoid hurt feelings.

 

I don't claim to be humble. I try to be, but I know I'm not. And I sincerely did not mean to insult you (initially) or to suggest that your diet wasn't good enough. I took specific exception to the literal meaning of the phrase. And, until you accused me of being insensitive, disrepectful, discriminatory, etc. while I objected to the literal meaning of the phrase I also said that your choices were yours and were fine as such. I also apologized for putting such a fine point on the literal meaning of the phrase. Then you got offended and started acting like a jerk and I responded in kind. I generally like you fine, Meowgi. And I generally regard you to be a thoughtful person and respect your interest in Buddhist principles. I am sincerely sorry that my small objection to the literal meaning of "as little as possible" offended you so deeply.

 

LMAO at this passive aggressive non-apology apology.

 

It turned into one because Meowgi made arguments about the bad effects of the meat industry on our environmental health as a parallel to the bad effects of cigarette smoke.

I acknowledge that there are situations in which it would make sense to kill animals in the interest of self-preservation and there are many in which I would do so. Here are some.

If I were on a desert island or in some other situation where I had to kill an animal and eat it to survive I would do so.

If the life of a human was threatened by a dangerous animal and I had the means to kill it I would.

If my home was infested with insects or mice or whatever and the only way to be rid of them was by killing them I would do so.

There are other examples. And in each case I'd make a decision that was right for me and I wouldn't expect it to be the same one you'd make.

But the over population argument is kind of a red herring I think. We're not overrun by cows or chickens or pigs or fish. And, if we were, I'd think that would be because we bred them for food. We could solve that problem by not doing that anymore. You could make the argument that it's a good thing to hunt deer in the interest of thinning the herd so they wouldn't starve, but that too would be a judgment call as to whether it was more humane (if such things concerned you) to shoot them or let them starve. I expect that, given evidence they would surely starve, I would opt for shooting them, but I'm not sure.

At any rate I can't think of a single circumstance in which humans would need to kill the animals traditionally regarded to be food in order to avoid catastrophic overpopulation.

 

in the case of pregnancy there is a biological imperative that lays waste to any notion of ethics. you, as we all do for one issue or another, have drawn a line in the sand. nature>ethics because no matter how well intentioned, ethics are arbitrary. quite simply, i don't hold cows in the same regard as i do you and i drool over the thought of a juicy steak. i'm not suggesting that you have usurped your own free will, but you have said yourself that it has been a difficult lifestyle to maintain. to each his own, i fully understand and respect your choice to be vegan. i have many friends that are still vegan and i don't mind at all cooking for them, no burden at all. cooking is, after visual art and music, the nearest and dearest thing to my heart and i would never be offended if someone chose not to eat anything i cooked.

 

LMAO at the idea of you as the arbiter of what constitutes a proper apology. Or a proper anything really.

 

I mostly agree with all that, thegary. My girlfriend is vegan and if she were to get pregnant I would strongly encourage her to consider changing her diet.

The vegan lifestyle is not difficult to maintain because I am denying myself foods I want to eat. I'm not. It is difficult for two other reasons. One is that supplements are necessary to maintain health and I don't value my own health enough to take them as often as I should. As a result I often feel run down. The other is that, while great strides have been made of late, it is difficult to eat out and damn near impossible to take a road trip without a very careful shopping trip in advance. But I don't deny myself food I want. I just don't consider that stuff food anymore. Well, except for the very, very occasional craving for Chik-Fil-A. Man, I loved that stuff.

We all make choices and many of them are difficult to stick to. It is a difficult choice for me not to crash into a car that just cut me off or not to yell at or hit someone that pisses me off or not to molest some hot chick without her permission. In each case I am usurping my own free will as you said, but I am doing it for a reason. There's no difference between those situations and my diet really, for me.