it doesn't challenge me whatsoever, i don't feel my moral compass twitch one bit when i eat a burger. i do support things like free-range farming. eating local, hell, the whole slow foods movement. i do, however, have tremendous respect for the fact that he isn't judging others who eat meat. NewJerker is an ass, as you know, and shows no such respect for others. this is the difference. i have said many times that i have gotten used to the ban and am happy for those who are now enjoying going out because of the non-smoky environment. however, all anyone here is saying is that maybe there could be a compromise that would allow some bars to allow smoking. the way it works here is that most of the dive bars pull out the ashtrays at 1AM or so. let's face it, if you are out drinking after that you are probably up to no good.
Batman Saves The Thread. For those watching at home that might want to see a tour de force of how to think (and write) outside yourself, reference Batman in this thread. Agreed on everything.
I agree. The problem that you keep ignoring is that bars and restaurants already are allowed to potentially give people lung cancer from smoke by allowing indoor wood burning fires and open grilles. Heck if the law prevented you from ever breathing toxic exhaust then people wouldn't be allowed to paint or even have candles indoor. You've never addressed that question though whether such things as indoor fires should be allowed. If you are so concerned about health why aren't you addressing that? I go to bars too much for my own good but you have no basis for proving that if given the chance to get smoking licenses all bars would. You also don't understand market forces that might convince many bars not too. For instance Minnesota used to have a bar closing time of 1AM. Bar owners complained bitterly that this was costing them business especially considering that Wisconsin bars stayed open until 2AM. About 5 years ago they changed the law to allow bars to remain open until 2. Guess what there wasn't a mad rush to stay open until 2. Many bars kept there 1AM closing time because they realized it didn't benefit their business that much and the extra costs of keeping staff around for an extra hour wasn't worth potentially more business they could get. If bars are required to get smoking licenses and upgrade ventilation is doubtful that many will if they feel that they can still get business. In fact prior to the smoking ban when smoking sections with increased ventilation was needed many businesses voluntarily went smoke free because they realized it wasn't worth the costs.
Drunks are more prone to get into fights and sexually harass people. I actually would allow airlines if they choose to have all smoking flights but not mixed flights. I would ban it on public buses largely as that is a public and not a private space. If a workplace chose to allow smoking I would provided they met increased ventilation standards just like a workplace where there are open flames or other aerial pollutants have to meet those standards.
I had the same moral quandry about ten years ago when I went vegetarian for awhile. One problem I encountered was that some people would feel offended if they served meat and I didn't eat it including some in my own family. I ended up dating a woman who was a chef and not eating everything she cooked would cause some friction in the relationship. In the end I just accepted that I live in a society that eats meat and while I think we should eat less, including myself now, and also try to get it from local and organic sources we eat meat.
I don't consider it a quandry at all. Not at all. I say, "Oh that's so nice of you, but I'm vegan. Please enjoy it yourself." Once in a while they make a big deal out of how bad they feel for offering me something I don't eat, I ask them not to and tell them it's all totally fine, they continue to and I feel even worse. Frankly, I don't find that especially considerate. And I turn down nearly all invitations to dinner parties because I don't want someone to make a fuss over me or go to any special trouble. It's a drag, but it's a moral imperative with me and I'm not going to violate it to make someone feel better. Further, I don't see one bit of difference between declining meat as a vegan and declining a food due to an allergy. In fact, it's virtually the same with me. I haven't eaten meat in 20 years. I'd get sicker than hell if I ate it now. My body can't digest it. As I said before, I feel a pang of guilt for turning down a generous offer but I'd feel the same way if I was literally allergic. Of course, where Meowgi's concerned, I'm sure that even if he had a deadly peanut allergy he would eat peanuts if offered as not doing so would apparently be "discriminatory" and "inconsiderate."
NewYorker only argues the parts he wants to. If an argument thwarts his premise, it just doesn't exist. If that rubs you the wrong way, put him on ignore.
YOu might not realize it is a quandry but many people take food the preparing of it very seriously. I respect your stand though but I think to considerate as on par with an allergy that is somewhat selfish. We are omnivores and even if you haven't eaten meat in a long time you still have incisors and enzymes in your body that can digest meat. You have made a moral decision and one that I can respect but it isn't a biological one.
Sorry Sishir, but you are wrong. I have not consumed meat for a very long time and as a result my body has a very difficult time digesting it. And, through my diet, I have made myself positively lactose intolerant. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I have become very sick on each occasion that I have accidentally ingested meat or dairy. I either can't take a **** or I get the runs for days. If that's not on par with an allergy that causes one to break out in hives or whatever I don't know what to tell you. And, as tolerant as I am of any dietary choice anyone wants to make, I say **** anyone that's offended that I won't eat meat that they prepared. Yes, this is a society that eats meat by and large but it is also a society that once favored slavery, that once tolerated pedophilia, that once allowed smoking in all public places and not just bars. Societal norms mean nothing to me if they violate my ethics. I don't give a **** if someone doesn't agree with my choices but I get seriously pissed off if someone is offended by my adherance to them. You don't like the allergy thing? Fine. Call it a religious thing. You wouldn't ask a Hindu to eat a burger; don't ask me to either. It is a moral imperative. That you would suggest I'm being selfish by not considering how seriously people take food preparation is really f*cking offensive.
There is a very clear and understood mechanism for lactose intolerance, but as far as I can tell, there is no known mechanism for abstinence induced meat intolerance. It doesn't particularly make a difference in the larger picture of your position which is fine, but I had never heard of this type of meat intolerance, and doing some looking I'm not sure that it is possible to become meat intolerant due to not eating it, or rather I am reasonably sure that this is not possible. Obviously you don't want to eat meat so it doesn't make a difference, but if you decided to have a big ol' medium rare filet mignon wrapped in bacon tomorrow I don't believe that you wouldn't have major problems digesting the protein as you would with milk and the absence of lactase.
why should public places ban smoking? And why not mixed flights? So you are in favor of office spaces and such of allowing smoke environments. That's interesting. If people were allowed to light up during a meeting, I'd walk out. And I'd certainly never hire a smoker. No way would I ever put that person in front of a client. But that's me. I guess if you favor letting people smoke in office spaces, I really cant say your position is inconsistent.
Vegetarians get sick (diarhea) when they first eat meat because their bodies aren't use to it, but they will adapt and be fine after a few weeks.
some people's bodies stops producing the enzymes to break down meat so when you eat it again it goes right through and makes ya sick a bit.
Mixed emotions about this topic. Should you be able to smoke in a restaurant? NO!!! I'm a smoker but will not let myself or whoever I'm with do that. I don't enjoy eating when someone is blowing smoke at me. In a bar tho? Just don't go there Texaskan or whatever. You go to a place to drink(destroyes your health) and expect the 80% of people who are smokers to not smoke? Thats BS! I'm sure you can find a crappy lame ass place to go to. Oh...wait....you are obviously looking to hang out with the sick ass smokers or you wouldn't be there. These places you frequent will go out of business if it's just your 20% that show up. I'm sure they will love you for the brief time they exist with only your patronage. Go to a restaurant or something.
