I was saying IF you wanted to support his usage of speech, not that you WERE supporting it. Please don't inaccurately read what I wrote (although with your new explanation what if he thinks that slurs are appropriate...then don't you support his usage of slurs?). As for the rest of it...yeah, I am an idiot. Whatever whitey says. What are illegal immigrants who cross the US-Canada border called? Have you driven a ford lately?
Originally posted by rimbaud I was saying IF you wanted to support his usage of speech, not that you WERE supporting it. Please don't inaccurately read what I wrote (although with your new explanation what if he thinks that slurs are appropriate...then don't you support his usage of slurs?). <b>Neither one of us has any evidence that he meant it as a slur rather than as the local color for illegal immigrant. As regards your second comment, unless he tells us that he meant the ugliest version of the word, we don't know. Based on the evidence of the man's life, I'm not ready to stoop that low and assign him that kind of ugliness. I've never said that the man was beyond criticism. I just don't see where he deserved the level of criticism that he has received. When he tells us that he did mean to use the uglier version of the word then you will find me piling on some criticism. But even that will have to be countered with the consideration of his performance persona and the separation of that from the man himself. Just like you have to let the Nazis march in Skokie, you have to allow the usage of slurs-- except on television and radio, I guess. Do you see a way around that?</b> As for the rest of it...yeah, I am an idiot. Whatever whitey says. <b>I have no idea what you are complaining about here...</b> What are illegal immigrants who cross the US-Canada border called? <b>Terrorists?</b> Have you driven a ford lately? <b>Never have: Chevy, Volvo, Fiat, Jeep, Honda, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Buick, and now a Mazda. I'm as bad an American as Ted, I guess..</b>
Local colored. I sure am funny. Playing with you is boring, giddy. Without wonderbreads we will weep wearily. Whitey will wither. Is your reverse-bolding some kind of attempt to make yourself feel more important? Do you want to be a trend-setter? You should try bold with all caps. Reading is ethnimental.
Well, I'm happy to see you've been trying to rehab yourself without me giddyup, and are pretending as if I launched an attack on your constitutional freedoms. I don't need to call you a jackass anymore, all I have to do is keep posting this:
I'm sorry I didn't know I was supposed to wait on you before responding to other posters. My bad. The words are there for all to see. Sam I can't help it if you're so blinded by your rage that you can't see that my purpose was not to approve of what Nugent was saying, I only defended his right to say it. Sorry you didn' t pick that up but that's your problem not mine. Quit your hair-trigger temper and you're serve your agenda better. I'm still waiting on your evidence that I backtracked. I only responded to your criticisms as they came up.
How many times to I have to repeat myself? I never once questioned his right to say it. I have expressly affirmed it on multiple occasions. I see you've chosen the path of victimhood because of my brutal, vicious assaults on the usage of racial & ethnic slurs. Welcome to the cult of the victim, you and Ted will be right at home among us.
So why were you jumping all over me for defending his right to say it? I never said it. I never approved of his saying it. I only defended his right to say it. So you <b>are</b> a member of the Cult of Victimhood?!
For the hundreth time, I never challenged his right to say it, and you know it. You got mad because I said he was an idiot, etc. for saying it, and then you claimed it wasn't meant to be offensive, and now you have metamorphasized into Nadine Strossen. Freedom of speech goes both ways. Nugent wants to say go kill wetback sons of b****es, I can say Nugent is an idiot, and you are acting like one. Again.
I got mad because I thought you were being unduly harsh on a performing persona and because you insulted me alongside your disapproval of Nugent. You called me a jackass on several occasions just for defending Nugent's right to express himself as he sees fit-- especially as a performer. Please explain to my wife the Nadine Strossen thing.
Have at it SamFisher.... Evidence of my consistent argument: Post 4: The guy is a bit over-the-top. I'm not ready to convict and flush him yet, though. So far the incriminations seem to grow out of his theatrics or his life on tour. Is "wetback" really a racist term? Doesn't it describe people who have crossed the Rio Grande to enter the country illegally-- even if they are Germans visitng Mexico? Granted, <b>shooting them onsight is obnoxious</b>... but I want to give him leeway until there is further evidence. If he calmly and calculatedly recommends that solution... well, that is another matter. Post 5 Are all Mexicans wetbacks or are all wetbacks Mexican? What did Ted say? <b>I don't just happily accept what Nugent said</b>, I'm just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until I have more info. I'm not too familiar with Nugent. The Nugent I've seen on interviews does not square with most of the evidence people here have trotted out to characterize (defame) him. Do you have all that info or are you just a PC Nazi? Post 7 Shift the focus? How about "make you aware of the full implications of what you are saying." Like it or not, wetback has a dual meaning: the original one which was quite literal and the ethnic slur which has evolved. Do you know which he meant? <b>It's not my view</b>, maniac. You are just too quick to condemn. Post 8 <b>If Nugent is as bad as you all say he is, he will definitely fall in my estimation</b>. However, that is yet to be determined. Post 12 <b>I am open to the possibility that Nugent meant "wetback" the way that Batman says he did but, unlike Batman, I am not inside of Nugent's head</b> and I am not his biographer so I am not convinced of the certanty or accuracy of Batman's opinion…I am just poking holes in the comments which would send Ted to the bottom of the ocean. Post 16 <b>I don't think I am defending him as much as giving him the benefit of the doubt.</b> Post 24 I think his theatrics probably <b>go overboard</b>; he is The Motorcity Madman after all. Post 25 Did you find Ted anywhere saying he wanted to be able to use any of the terms indiscriminately? I don't think so. <b>He just doesn't want to be prohibited from using them when others do and/or when the are accurate in their use</b>. He's anti-PC whie you, apparetnly, were weaned on it. If Ted's musical friends who are black don't mind him calling them *****', what's it to you? I doubt one of his concert venues or a guest spot on a shock jock morning show would be considered "polite society." Post 26 <b>Sure you have the right to criticize anybody for anything. However, I think you should be more levelheaded and fairminded</b>. I found almost all of your characterizations of Ted Nugent to be caricatures of the madman you want him to be rather than the man he is. Post 27 <b>I think Nugent's position is that there should not be a complete prohibition</b> on a white guy using the N-word. Apparently he has found people with whom he could use the N-word in a non-derogatory way that is accepted by his circle of acquaintances--- but not by you! Post 30 I didn't say he didn't mean it in a negative way. I defended SamFisher's extrapolation that he was talking about all Mexicans-- instead of just illegal aliens. <b>Ted is too theatrical but that doesn't make him a murdering racist</b>. As he says in his own words, look at George Carlin or Chris Rock. They say unbelievable things all the time and get away with it. Post 32 You can criticize til your eyes and ears bleed, but you wish to censor him and you have not that right. Post 34 Why he "would," I don't know; I'm not Ted. Why he "should"... I guess because he finds it <b>appropriate</b>. There you go again! Why do you keep implying that I use racial slurs? <b>I didn't say Ted was above criticism</b>. If you read back on what I wrote, I (likewise) criticized you for mis-characterizing the man based on a few slurs that you could cite. No, I don't have any such overpowering need to do anything of the sort. There you go again, again! Tiresome. There you go again, again, again! I don't use those terms and <b>I never said anyone was above criticism</b>. I just said that they were deserving of a careful and accurate depiction-- not some self-serving slander. Post 36 Censorship does have many forms. I say that because you try to beg the question that you are not censoring him because you are not legally trying to prevent his expression. Your efforts are still censorship.... censorship has many forms. <b>I defend his right</b> and I give him the benefit of the doubt until further evidence is in. It's not my job to justify his conduct, nor is it your job to try and label me a racist alongside Nugent, but you try. It's amazing how you know his every motive... Post 37 This is the horror? <b>He was talking about the terms-- not even using them to talk about somebody or at somebody</b>.... I daresay that you, Batman, and I are guilty of exactly the same thing that you think Nugent is guilty of.... Post 39 Sam I have not told you cease and desist in your arguments... like you did me, so don't try lecturing about the exercise of free speech. <b>Here's what you wrote</b>: "I can't believe your persisting with defending this crap. I suppose you are getting a big kick out of seeing me get worked up over it, which I guess is why you're trying to play all cute with it. <b>You should stop</b>, because it's not very funny, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way." Post 40 <b>I don't support his racial slurs</b> (in spite of SamFisher's attempts to lump me right in with Nugent), <b>I support his right to use words that he considers appropriate</b>. Post 41 C'mon, the guy was jabbering on the radio with two shock-jocks. He wasn't introducing legislation. Post 46 There was an obvious reason for pointing out that Nugent works with a Mexican guitarist. It calls into question your charges of his patent racism. Why would that be tolerated by the fellow... or does he know something about TN that you don't know? I'm no long-time fan of Ted Nugent. <b>Why else would I defend him but from your ill-conceived attacks</b>? Post 47 Seriously, if you look at whatever I said, that's all I was doing. <b>Nugent has a right to talk that way-- especially amongst his friends. That's about all I ever claimed</b>. Post 48 I've backtracked nowhere. You're the First Amendment guru. It's not my fault if you don't recognize my line of argumentation. <b>Look at everything I said and you will find a consistency</b>. Post 49 <b>I've been accused of complicit racism because I said he had a right to use that language</b>. I've indicated that I think it is over-the-top but that's Ted Nugent apparently. I don't talk like that-- never have. SamFisher took me to task for defending Nugent. He likened me to any number of farm animals because I wouldn't just condemn Nugent at his and others' urging. I'm no more prone to speak like that than SF or BJ is, yet their rush to shut him up smacked of censorship to me. I took it for what it was to me: the ranting of a performer who likes to be provocative. <b>It's pretty plain to me that all of these instances cited are extensions of Ted's act. Are they in bad taste? Probably. Let's lump him in with George Carlin and Chris Rock not David Duke</b>. Look at the evidence of his life not a few words which explode from his mouth while performing. Post 50 <b>I've never said that the man was beyond criticism</b>. I just don't see where he deserved the level of criticism that he has received. When he tells us that he did mean to use the uglier version of the word then you will find me piling on some criticism. But even that will have to be countered with the consideration of his performance persona and the separation of that from the man himself. Post 52 Sam I can't help it if you're so blinded by your rage that you can't see that my purpose was not to approve of what Nugent was saying, <b>I only defended his right to say it</b>. Sorry you didn' t pick that up but that's your problem not mine. Post 53 <b>So why were you jumping all over me for defending his right to say it? I never said it. I never approved of his saying it. I only defended his right to say it. </b>
Batman, I was just wondering what it means when one black calls another black a n***er, which is probaly said by blacks ten times as much as it is said by whites.
No, you just showed no inclination to prove your case. You just prefer to sling accusations, so I volunteered to do your work for you. You're welcome! Try sticking to the facts...
Ha, I'm at work giddyup and a bit too busy to launch into a comprehensive reply , but don't worry, if you're such a glutton for punishment I will dish out some more at some point. until then.
That's fine (although I asked initially several days ago). You never indicated one way or another that you would meet the challenge. With Love, Giddyup
Okay, I have read a little bit about this thread, mainly over the weekend and this post of giddy's has absolutely staggered me. Giddy, How much time did you spend on that post? Don't you have a family and kids? I am not being an ass here, but damn, this has got to be the most riled up I have ever seen anyone here. To get this riled up over someone who is a complete idiot in Ted Nugent (sorry giddy, but the guy is a grade A moron) on a message board is amazing enough, but it is stupefying to me that the person upset has spent who knows how much time defending said moron when there are other things out there to do with life. It just isn't worth it, IMO. Now giddy, you will probably be pissed at me when you read this, but seriously think about how much time you have spent (wasted) on this thread. And you did it for Ted ****ing Nugent?? I don't care that SamFisher baited you or posted just as much; you, I would say, are older than him should have just bowed out of the thread. To keep posting in it is akin to a little kid who HAS to get the last word in an argument, one that is usually meaningless and anything dealing with Ted Nugent is meaningless. I like you giddy, but remember when I jumped you and Max in a thread about 9-11 about a year ago? You had this behavior of "if you don't side with me, you're stupid as ****". I do feel that I have not really seen that side of you since then, but reading this thread has brought back those ugly memories. I think you reached the point of no return a long time ago with this thread (probably on page 1) and you honestly didn't know what to do. Take it from someone who has had that happened to them before....just bow out gracefully and say "well, we will have to agree to disagree" or better yet just post nothing, which can be very hard to do. But reading stuff from you like "There you go again!" is funny at first but somewhat sad when analyzed with everything else in this thread. Anyway, I have rambled on long enough and I am sorry, giddy, if this post will make you mad. Normally, I would stay out of things, but reading this thread and especially that post gives me the sensation that you are losing credibility with a lot of people here, and I hate to see a good poster like yourself get ignored on the board in the future all because of one thread that really is not worth it.
not necessarily true. When the term is used by my Mexican step-father, he is referring to the illegal immigrants that come over. He doesnt have a problem with people legally immigrating to this country. it pisses him off that people will comeover and not bother to learn the language, and are(he feels) a burden on our social services. Now, to be fair, he is 2nd generation(born here), so its possible that he has no particular sympathy for people tryin to come here for a better life, but i dont know that for sure. to say that the term has "absolutley no use other than racist" is just plain incorrect. and by the way, when did the word *boy* become a derogatory term? I call most male kids I know under the age of 21 boy. as in "Whatcha doin boy?..what are ya, nuts?" is this wrong in the PCPolice's eyes?
