giddy: Well, that's your take on the Dixie Chicks based on your dislike of their political stance. Isn't it possible that you are doing exactly the opposite in defense of Nugent. Let's put it this way, if Nugent had said that the war was wrong and abortion should be legal, would you have spent all this time on here defending what he did in the past? Would you, not knowing who he was, honestly keep your mind this open to the possibility that maybe "wetback" means something different to him because he is from Detroit after those comments? You are obviously entitled to your opinion but you are turning your back on the obvious because you agree with him. I'm just wondering if you would be similarly sympathetic if the person in question were liberal instead of conservative.
Jeff, I always defended Bill Clinton's absolute right to a BJ from any woman he could convince. He didn't deserve to be impeached over that... now, lying to a Grand Jury is a different matter! In all seriousness, I would probably give more leeway to someone with whom I generally share more points of agreement. That is only natural and is no big surprise. I am open to the possibility that Nugent meant "wetback" the way that Batman says he did but, unlike Batman, I am not inside of Nugent's head and I am not his biographer so I am not convinced of the certanty or accuracy of Batman's opinion. I like the Ted Nugent I saw on TV Tuesday afternoon. By Tuesday night, you all wanted me to disavow him because of what you knew about Ted Nugent. Is it too much to ask that the guy get a fuller hearing? or that I make up my own mind? Is it okay to doubt the opinions of others? I am just poking holes in the comments which would send Ted to the bottom of the ocean. No doubt I am defending him because I thought I was on track to find someone with a refreshing outlook with which I could resonate to some degree (I'm not a hunter or fisher but to hear his vibrancy in talking about the experience of being a self-sustaining provider was inspirational). Then you all peed all over him, so yeah, I am defensive. How are you saying I agree with Nugent? Are you saying that I am a racist and am in favor of shooting all wetbacks?!?! The interview I saw dealt with hunting, fishing, and environment-- nothing about immigration or murder.
Giddyup, you know full well why I am rushing to judgment, you are being intentionally dense in order to be racially provocative ("Maybe wetback isn't offensive in Michigan? I don't know?") Well, either you were ignorant before and you know now, or like I said, you enjoy hassling people on racial and ethnic matters for your own amusement. Either way, I think you made enough of an ass of yourself for one day, but that's my opinion, although I'm sure I'm not alone.
Now there you go again! My point is that "wetback" had a literal and original meaning which was not racist at all. Surely, it has evolved into being used as a racist term. Same with Uncle Tom. Do you have an Uncle Tom? I don't-- thank God!!!!!!!!! Is this really that complicated an idea or are you just pretending to be dense so you can insult me?
Here's what I actually said: "He's from Michigan, right? Maybe "wetback" is a different word up there. I don't know. " Please don't quote me unless you are going to be accurate.
Giddyup, I would understand your refusal to pass judgment on someone less public than Ted Nugent. If this was a case where you mentioned meeting a fellow BBS poster with whom you agreed on a particular issue, and several posters then told you "Oh that person was a jerk when I met him/her," then your skepticism would be warranted. But Nugent's transgressions/faults are a matter of public record and it seems you're willing to overlook that record because he shares certain viewpoints. You then justify this by claiming you haven't witnessed these transgressions yourself and that you don't know what Nugent actually means. Again, while that's certainly acceptable when applied to a non-famous person, it just seems apologetic when applied to someone as high-profile (and whose intentions are as transparent) as Nugent. Mrs. JB suggested you read up on Nugent, and I think that would be more productive than defending him when you self-admittedly don't know much about him.
That is the point, giddy...you are wrong. It originated as a racist term...not "descriptive." Unless you want to argue that something such as "slope" for an Asian was also just descriptive of their eyes and not racist?
I don't think I am defending him as much as giving him the benefit of the doubt. He may have a public record. I don't know. I've only been shown one link to one newsstory. For me, he's not that public. I have had only a vague awareness of the man and I honestly had not heard one thing about this alleged racism until these responses beginning only 48 hours ago (or so). Too many things going on right now to delve much into Ted's public record. If I can make time, I'll do it.
As always, rimbaud, say what you mean. You meander towards your points. Are you saying that the origin of the term "wetback" is not a reference to a means of illegal entry into the US via the Rio Grande? That's not a characteristic which someone cannot control; it is quality brought about by an illegal activity. The slope of an Asian's eyes is a thing that they are born with-- not an activity which they commit. Am I missing something? or did you mean something else?
Hey giddyup, since it's excusable to call hispanic people wetbacks in your opinion, because it has nothing biological about it, is it cool to call black people porch monkeys, or sambos? or "boy"? I mean, I know your pal, the articulate Ted Nugent favors the term "n-ggers" , but I was just wondering. It has nothing to do with how they are born. Or is it ok to call people gooks? that's not like slopes, no? You let me know when you finish your research so I don't make a rush to judgment. You know, I'm beginning to think, since you persist in this asinine argument, that I was wrong? you may be both ignorant AND a bigot, instead of immature and annoying. Congratulations. Happy fourth of july.
Bad American-- Written by Ted Nugent, the rock singer and hunter/naturalist, upon hearing that California Senators B.Boxer and D. Feinstein denounced him for being a 'gun owner' and 'Rock Star.' This was his response after telling the senators about his past contributions to children's charities and scholarship foundations which have totaled more than $13.7 million in the last 5 years: I'm a Bad American - this pretty much sums it up for me. I like big trucks, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women. I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid level governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies. I don't care about appearing compassionate. I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might. I think I'm doing better than the homeless. I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized. I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or make me mad. This is my life to live, and not necessarily up to others expectations. I know what sex is and there are not varying degrees of it. I don't celebrate kwansaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just don't feel like everyone else should have to. I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or a hotel room you do it in English. As a matter of fact, if you are a American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it. I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop' in English, see the previous line. I don't use the excuse, 'it's for the children' as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions. I know to to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation do a recount when needed. I know what the definitions of lying is, and it isn't based on the word 'is'-ever. I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, government sponsored blank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-eleven, trinket shop, or any thing else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a high school education because they can't afford it. I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet. I thought the Taco Bell dog was funny. I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks. I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped a a red light. But I respect your right to. I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack in The Box. I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the pakage. Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitutions so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys wo wrote it were light years ahead of any today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble. I don't hate the rich. I help the poor. I know wrestling is fake. I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots - and remember, tons of White, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too - it was wrong for every one of them. I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude. I want to know exactly which church is it where the 'Reverend' Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function. I own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red blooded American should be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime, then you will serve the time. I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it makes you mad, then invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you. I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it makes me mad. You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being than I do as a white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime. We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have. I think turkey bacon, turkey beef, turkey fake anything sucks. I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child - it takes a parent with the guts to stand up to the kid an spank his butt and say "NO!" when necessary to do so. I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller. I didn't realize Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid. I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm neither angry or disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise. Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a Bad American. But that's tough. Ted Nugent.
NOT SO FUNNY by Ted Nugent Robin Williams is a universally revered funnyman. Everybody loves him. How couldn’t you? I have seen him destroy wildly diverse crowds with his over the top, out of control, clever insanity that only a fool would fail to howl at. Turning a waterbottle into a sperm spewing penis had em rolling in the aisles. That’s funny ****. Irreverent, even xtremely vulgar to some, but damn funny. Playing the quintessential blackdude, erupting in the most ridiculous ultra black streetbanter about whitey almost made me pee my pants. Cracker this, redneck that, hillbilly this, whitetrash that, honky, trailertrash, boy; he hit em all. It was hysterical. In the great tradition of Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, Sam Kinison, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, Richard Pryor, Dan Ackroyd, and just last week, some huge black comedian on Bill Maher’s HBO TV show using the word ****** over and over again and again, the sanctimonious barriers of politically correct anal retentiveness were ceremoniously tossed to the wind, clearly where they belong. Sense-of-humor. Open mindedness. Poking fun at the human shortcomings of petty thoughtlessness, transparent veneer, and celebrating good old cheap shots for a good laugh. Twenty years ago George Carlin said it best, "If I use the word ****** I get in trouble. Richard Pryor uses the word ******. Eddie Murphy uses the word ******. You know why those guys can get away with using the word ******? BECAUSE THEY'RE ******S!" Can you say "hypocrisy personified?" I can. British people are commonly refereed to as Brits. Canadians as Canucks. Swedish as Swedes. Japanes as Japs. American as Yanks, even damn Yanks. get over it. Please. When Nicole Brown’s blood was still on the steps of ……… even Jay Leno and David Letterman, not necessarily known for their hard edged, cutting humor, made gaudy, overtly insensitive, even vicious remarks about OJ’s handy knifework. Though that made me cringe knowing the family were still in emotional aftershock and heartbroken grief, the audiences laughed loudly. I didn’t like it, but I didn’t attack Dave & Jay. I suppose nothing is sacred. It was apparently clear in the real world of humor and entertainment, that anything goes. No target is off limits. Remember Richard Pryor’s extended “******” routine on his live video? Beautiful! How about Chris Rock’s whiteboy outrage. He goes for the Caucasian jugular. Killer funny. Who didn’t nearly blow a gasket howling at Blazing Saddles? Jerry Seinfeld made numerous jokes about Holocaust tragedies. The evidence is overwhelming; you can say anything for a laugh. Unless, of course, I say it. Recently, on one of the world’s best and certainly funniest morning radioshows, the FOX’s Lewis & Floorwax morning show in Denver, I made the comment that you can’t play real, authentic, soulful, toneful blues on a Jap guitar. I then went on to quote by name, my favorite record of alltimes, Richard Pryor’s That ******s Crazy! I was dead serious. I then stated that the best name ever for a band was *****s With Attitude. I meant it. Then I shared a wonderful story from my rock-n-roll youth in Detroit when my band the Lourdes won the Michigan Battle of the Bands in 1963, and was rewarded with the privilege of performing on the same Cobo Hall stage with the gods of R&B, the mighty Funk Brothers of Motown. In one of the most moving experiences in my musical career, the biggest, baddest Funk Brother of all sashayed over to me and my band, put his strong black, genius hand on my trembling white shoulder, looked down upon me, and stated, “Boy, you keeps playin guitar like dat, youz gonna be a ****** when youz grows up.” I shook in awe and reverence, and stuttered, “thank you sir.” For these amazingly simple statements of humor, respect and honesty, I have once again been attacked as a racist. Let me tell you what’s going on here. People hate me because I’m so damn effective at getting across my pro-gun, pro-hunting and pro-American statements. Forever, liberal hippies in the media have manufactured all sorts of hateful misrepresentations about me and about what I say and stand for. They are helpless to take me on intellectually, one on one, so they extract convenient edited phrases out of context and put their own left spin on them. They should be ashamed of themselves. But they will not be, for one would need a soul or semblance of conscience to do so, and in this cultural war to demonize all that I am, they are hellbent to compromise the NRA Board of Director #1 progun voice ever and America’s #1 Bambi killer most effective prohunt voice ever. It is the height of agenda driven, overtly biased unprofessionalism. It’s pathetic
Nugent's bass player is Mexican. Did he quit? THe letter below was authored by one of Nugent's fans in response to Ted's disinvitation to the Muskegon Summer Celebration. Oh, by the way, the same Celebration was proud to include gangsta rapper LL Cool J. Read on: 5-17-03 Muskegon Summer Celebration 587 West Western Avenue Muskegon, MI 49440 Re: Ted Nugent To whom it may concern: I read with interest an Associated Press article that indicated you have canceled Ted Nugent's appearance for making racial remarks. I feel you have made a mistake and are overreacting. Here is why... I have followed Mr. Nugent's career for many years. I have heard him speak many times (the last 7 of which were family oriented events), I have attended many of his concerts, listened to 100's of his radio, TV, and print interviews, I have even talked to the man personally. Mr. Nugent, like many contemporary comedians, is often over-the-top and irreverent in certain situations. But he is not a racist, nor is he mean spirited. Mr. Nugent devoted his latest CD "Craveman" to none-other than civil rights icon, Rosa Parks. He has song lyrics that denounce the KKK (among other racist groups and people), I have read many times that he has gained inspiration from hero's of his that include Rosa Parks, James Brown, Mohammad Ali, and an entire host of black musicians. Last year I had a chance to ask Nugent's Mexican bass player, Marco Mendoza, what it was like to work for the man. He spoke very highly of him. A racist? Not hardly. You have made a mistake in regard to Mr. Nugent. In the wake of the inflammatory AP story that made a mountain out of a molehill, I hope you will look a little deeper and learn the truth about the man. I am sure you will find that Ted Nugent will be an excellent addition to your family event. Regards, Jeff Christensen
Thus far, I haven't been able to find anything about the "gook" episode or about his infidelities. I'll look again when I have time. Help is welcome... to get me back on the righteous path!
giddyup: The gook thing was in the Denver radio appearance. Search on Nugent, gook and Denver and you'll find it. But never mind that. I don't agree with TN's liberal (different meaning here), inflammatory use of racial epithets, nor with most of his political positions, but I'd never heard him defend himself in this way before. I'd never read any of this stuff you posted. And it's awfully persuasive -- not to bring me around to his way of thinking (god, no), but to bring me around to thinking he's not a moronic b*stard. The Bad American piece is smart as hell and funny too. Thanks for posting it. I still hate the guy (frankly, I hate all hunters), but I no longer think he's a scumbag. Good work.
<b>Batman</b>; Hey, we agree... Nugent is not a moron! Beyond that I don't know. I think his theatrics probably go overboard; he is The Motorcity Madman after all. I thought I read somewhere about the Denver radio show and as I recall he said something like this, "You can't play a good blues song on a Jap guitar." The use of the word "Jap" set off a firestorm. His counter was "Yank," "Brit," Swede," "Finn," et al are not considered racist remarks, so why is "Jap?" I didn't read about him using the word "gook." He certainly could make his points without being so controversial-- probably an ego-thing but I don't find him to be any kind of hate-monger... on the evidence I've reviewed I'm not rushing out to buy his music or to write him in as a candidate. At this point, I think he has a refreshing albeit a bit adolescent outlook which challenges some of my assumptions. He is on an edge somewhere and bound to be misunderstood by some or many.