I thought I'd throw this in there as well. It really deserves its own thread, but I don't know if there's enough interest to warrant it. <a href="http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/07/25/190235&mode=thread&tid=123">Here's the Link from /.</a> and <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/26357.html">Here's the Register's link</a> Basically it gives legal immunity to anyone who believes his copyright work is being used/distributed without his consent to hack into that person/company's computer(s) or send DoS attacks. It's inherently unconstitutional via the 14th amendment's equal protection clause. It grants legal immunity to some. Basically it's a digital Patriot Act where corporations become the enforcers.
I thought about starting a thread on the same topic Vengeance, but I figured it had already been done. Hopefully this bill will not pass and I am going to email my congressman tonight to demand that he not back this bill. It is a huge infraction against our constitutional rights and will be struck down in the courts if it ever passed. http://computerworld.com/newsletter/0,4902,72975,0.html?nlid=PM
I don't own stock in Microsoft or anything. I am only defending them because I don't think that they are really doing anything wrong. I think that they are a lot like the Yankees, minus some of the class. People hate them because they are on top. If Apple were trying to do all of this, no one would say anything about it. I have used Linux/UNIX and I much prefer windows. Since I am not a web designer, I won't claim any knowledge in that area and this site is great, so I will give you that. I have used StarOffice and other business productivity software though and I have to say I like Microsoft's products a lot better. If open source can't survive in the wake of Paladium, that probably means that it was a) not as good, or b) not cared enough about to market it effectively enough to beat an inferior product that costs boatloads more. They only have to pay for a digital certificate to run on Palladium servers and to access Palladium registered applications. If open source operating systems can't operate independent of Microsoft and those who ally themselves with Microsoft, maybe they aren't really viable alternatives. For example, how good would this BBS be if no one who used Windows came to it. I know of at least one valuable poster that would be lost. No one is disallowing competition. Microsoft is just a much better and more ruthless competetor than exists elsewhere in the market. No one suggested that America can't use its military equipment in Afghanistan because al-Queda can't compete without help from the outside. Standards are another matter. Microsoft uses the same open standards as everyone else. They are only proposing a new standard to replace TCP/IP, and they really aren't even the ones proposing it, that would be Intel/AMD wouldn't it. Many companies have proprietary standards, as is their right. I can't open a Word Perfect document with Word any easier than the reverse. I never said it was all about security and an end to piracy. Like the article and the poster said, that would be one application. I acknowledge that Microsoft is doing this for Microsoft. If you don't want to use it, don't buy a Palladium equipped PC. If enough people, and more importantly content providers, don't want it, then it will die. Finally, I have not read anything published by Microsoft on this issue. The only things that I have read have been attacks against it. So it would be impossible to successfully contend that I am "buying right into what M$ is telling" me. I have read the dire predictions and to me they seemed either a) not so dire, like not allowing you to boot a pirated operating system, or b) a little far fetched, like Bill Gates will rule the world. I didn't see anything along the lines of allowing access to your files to read what you have written in them, or seeing what you are developing at your company so that they can put it out first. edit: Just wanted to add that I think this is my longest post that isn't about Israel/Palestine or racism.
Calling all programers! We shall begin to migrate to a new type of computers, APPLES! Write games for Mac's ONLY! Make software for Mac's ONLY. WE NEED TO START A REVOLUTION! Mozilla/Netscape, will be the new browser. MacAmp/I tunes, will be the new media player. LET WorldWideWebWar3.0 BEGIN!
Part of the Reason everyone hates M$ is because they are on top, but the biggest reason is because of what they do <i>because</i> they are on top, which is basically anything they want. Right here you are pointing out EXACTLY what is wrong with Palladium with your very own assertions. You've tried other OSes and other office software and didn't like it. BUT YOU HAD A CHOICE!!! With Palladium, there is no choice but whatever M$ says you can use because you won't have the DRM to use it. The simple fact is that Palladium's goal is to get rid of Open Source software. So what do you have to pay M$ to allow people to use your software? Not sure yet, but it'll probably be something substantial. So what about Open Source in this? Well, Open Source is FREE. The people who develop it get NO MONEY. 0!!! It's part of what Open Source is all about -- take what you want, give back what you can. The simple fact is that developers of free software shouldn't have to pay M$ so that people can use their software. For companies that make money from software, this isn't a huge deal (until M$ starts pricing small competitors out of the market), but for people who make no money off of their software, there is nothing they can do about it but dip into their own pockets. And what of new pricing structures? What of M$ not granting certain software the DRM because it's competitive with what they have? Again it comes back to what you have already pointed out -- CHOICE!!! This is the EXACT anti-competitive bull-s#!+ that pisses us off about M$. And yet we are expected to roll over and take it? Currently M$ does use open standards . . . sometimes. They have been known to manipulate open standards and call them proprietary (see Kerberos). But the simple fact is that standards should be OPEN. This isn't as simple as file formats. It's MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more significant. Without open standards, the internet as we know it is no more. The internet would never have existed without open standards. The internet as we know if WON'T exist without open standards. And again, if these standards are hijacked by corporate interests, we again just hand over the keys to the net to corporations. I'm surprised so many people are so willing to lay down for this crap. This is the thing, you won't have a choice BUT to buy a Palladium PC. No internet for you, no applications (they must have DRM). It's basically a cartel. So you don't care about any choices but what M$ allows you to have? The simple fact is that it's not just about piracy, etc. It's about freedom of choice and the monopoly of Microsoft. But it all comes down to the one thing that is key -- CHOICE!!! Furthermore, this is a slippery slope (as are many things). If we just roll over and let M$ start to say what you can and can't do with your computer, they may be benevolent at first so that people just roll over and say "oh, it's not that bad", then when it benefits them, slowly freedom will be eroded until it's M$ everywhere else. You said it yourself, you had a choice. You will have NO choice with Palladium.
Dang Vengeance...I'm soo glad to have you taking up the explainin ...I couldn't state it as well as you do... I'll just add that I totally agree.. for what it's worth Hydra, don't take offence, I get a little passionate about security and freedom of choice issues..and I don't explain myself that well...but I do think if you understood the deeper technical issues behind this strategy, you might be just a little more concerned about it...
Thanks Rockets2K. As someone who's been in the Open Source community for 4 years now, I am VERY passionate about its survival. At my job I do everything I can to push for more open source software usage. I haven't done any Open Source software development (I really should), but I try to advocate OSS everywhere I can. I've also done lots of Beta Testing for Mozilla, Bluefish and other apps. BTW, I'm writing this on my PC running Linux with Gnome and Mozilla. It's all open source. But I could lose my right to run it because I won't have the proper DRM under M$'s monopoly.
What distro r u running? I'm real partial to SuSE myself..using KDE2 and Konquerer as a browser...just installed Opera the other day but haven't used it yet... I push OSS as often as is applicable...some of my clients just are not knowledgable enough to use it yet...but for any others, I try to encourage them to at least try the OS equivalent and see if works for them. Thankfully, OSS has gotten soo much easier to use since I first started messing with *nix 5 years ago... To stay on topic at least a little.... I'm really concerned about the push to replace the internet's core protocols...any secure standard created by just 1 company with M$'s track record for reliability is a disaster waiting to happen....just imagine if right after they release their new protocols, all the sudden something happens and you can't access CC.net...scared?? I am...I dont think I could go without my CC.net fix for the day... I realize this is worst case scenario, but it is possible...
I'm running RedHat. I really want to go Debian, but I am too lazy to format and re-install a new Linux distro. Maybe later. I like KDE 2 and Konqueror, but my PC is fast enough to run Gnome well (Gnome 1.2 and up is a resource hog!), and I love its customizability and feel. KDE is what I recommend to other people though. I think it's more user friendly and has a more stable feel to it. Mozilla just rocks too -- you should really give it a shot. Konqueror is neat though b/c of the tie with the WM. OSS has gotten easier. I still think it's about 3 years away from being viable for non-techies, but I think its headed in the right direction. And there's so much software for Windows that's Open Source too. I'm always getting people to use Mozilla, OpenOffice, Abiword, and other open source software in Windows. I'm fixing to send 30 computers to Africa with Linux ready to go for them if they want it instead of Windows. And the thing is, there is SO MUCH great Open Source software. I mean, I hardly ever use anything other than Open Source. I run Windows for gaming and multimedia (Linux still isn't quite there yet on multimedia). I also use it on my CD burning computer b/c I like CloneCD so much. At work I have to use Netware on most of the servers (but we're doing Linux web server next year, and after next weekend, I can put Linux anywhere b/c we're going from IPX under Netware 4 to TCP/IP under Netware 6 . . . I can't wait), and Windows NT on the workstations, but I've got Mozilla and OpenOffice installed everywhere I can. We're also doing some stuff that I think is kindof innovative for a school -- I'm trying to move entirely to Open Source software, and we're going to be giving students a CD of all of the software we will be using here . . . all of it Open Source of course! Also some Open books and resources for different classes. As far as the closed standards, I think you do have a point with M$'s prior track record. The thing is, the internet is so deeply rooted in open standards, a change to anything else is both bad and extremely costly in both money and time. By allowing any corporation to control the means of net communication, you are basically handing it right over to that company. Soon we'll have to pay for DNS queries and things like that. I have a paper I wrote about Open Source in college, and I talked about some of the most basic net utilities and standards and how they are Open Source. I will find it and post that part. Even if the standard works flawlessly, it's not right to close a standard that's been open for so long. It has MUCH further implications than we can even think of right now. It's like copyrighting the alphabet. This is the thing though, I think all of this will happen. I tend to have developed a pretty grim outlook on these matters of freedom. I mean, how could you not, what with the Patriot act and the DMCA. It's become painfully obvious that those who have money run everything. They can buy legislation, hire the best lawyers to fight lawsuits, and have carte blanche anywhere they want. The thing is, this kind of corporate crap has been going on for many years in the computer industry. A lot of it goes back to the late 60s and early 70s. When I first started getting into the Open Source movement, I was amazed at how many of these people were anti-corporation, Libertarians. And after having been a part of it for a few years, I can totally see why. Especially now. M$ hijacking other people's work to further increase its monopoly (it happens a lot more than they'd have you believe, I'm not referring to Palladium here), the government assaulting people's liberties and freedoms while protecting corporate interests -- it is a grim picture. I never thought the DMCA would pass, but it did and we've already seen how Dimitry Skylarov was treated (jailed without trial). The SSSCA/TCPDA will pass and most of my skills in repairing PCs will be rendered useless, and my digital freedom will be gone. Palladium will destroy my alternatives. I hope that things work themselves out properly. But I don't think they will. And people won't care until it's too late. If you take away freedom subtley -- so as not to cause a stir, the mass populous will never realize what is happening.
Thank God for my MAC. I'm not saying it's better or perfect but I have to deal with MS much less than if I was running a windows box. I respect the PC users who use linux and try to avoid MS products as much as possible. If I wasn't a Mac user I'd be in the same boat for I loath MS and many of it's practices. I feel sorry for many of the numb masses who believe MS is the begining and end of all their computer needs. When my privacy becomes an issue I'll unplug my cable modem and step away from the keyboard never to long on again. I think I'll miss this BBS most of all.
You may be doing it anyway, from what I understand..if they can get most of the web servers to use this crap...you will have to have Palladium capabilities to do any sort of business with the Palladium-enabled servers...Unless of course they make a version for Mac...and M$ doesn't sound real hip on the idea of making it for anything other than Winblows... I'm still doin ALOT of reading on this issue, so I don't pretend to understand it all...but I'm still inclined to think this could be the worst thing to happen ever!! Linux-user and damn proud of it...
