Teams that don't make the playoffs

Very good post!

I think giving Rudy the blank check because of the 2 championships is more than he deserves!
Hakeem & Bill Fitch took the team to the final in 86. We can't say the Rockets could not accomplish anything without Rudy. The Rockets did not take the ring then because they ran into the Celtics and Larry Bird.
The Rockets and Rudy had much better luck in 94, 95. A lot of things went right for them to bring home the championships.
1) Hakeem outplayed everyone he faced including the 3 next best centers Ewing, Robinson, Shaq.
2) Drexler.
3) The Rockets' players took turn to shine: Kenny, Horry, Cassel, Ellie ...
4) The other teams' players choked at crucial time: Stark, Anderson, Penny ...
5) No Jordan.

6) The least important of the reasons why the Rockets won: Rudy.
I put him here because he was the coach but I am not sure what he did to help?

Fitch was let go, Hakeem is gone ....
Why is Rudy still here?

 

TheFreak:


if you have answered this question before, i apologize; however i don't think you ever have:


can you honestly say you are happy with the type of basketball the rockets have been playing the past 4 years?


i'm not talking about wins/losses...although that's been pretty crappy. i mean the style of play.

 

Before Bill Fitch came to the Rockets, he was largely fired by Larry Bird.

Westhead was fired by Magic Johnson 11 games into a season, after Westhead was a "champion."

Cheney couldn't keep Hakeem happy, and he was fired.

I just don't see a valid comparison of Fitch and Westhead to Rudy.

That's my point. Doesn't matter what the coach has done, most championship coaches get fired by superstars friction. Until they lose the respect of their players, especially their star players, championship coaches don't really get fired.

 

In terms of results, is there much difference between losing the respect of the players, and being unable to get them to execute?

Steve may love Rudy to death (which by most accounts he does) but if he's not executing (or unable to execute) his game plan, what does that matter?

 

Reading my post, everyone know what corner I stand in. Yes Rudy has had injuries and thats a fact. With those poor season he was rewarded with the #7 pick,#1 & 15, not to mention the yr after the playoffs he got the #2 pick. Rudy's job shouldn't be treated like a supreme court judgeship. He is the only coach in the history of lotto basketball to have 4 staright lotto seasons. THE ONLY COACH.

The buck stops with him on the decision of players so if the roster isn't what he wants, who's the blame. It really goes back to Rudy using the same excuse of injuries and youth as a crutch. Instead of him admitting he's made poor judgements in personnel and have been slow to use his the new defensive schemes to improve his defense and change his offense. Lenny Wilkens was missing his star player in Carter for most of the season and had watch him go in and out of the lineup. Once out of the lineup, he got his team to focus and win like 7 or 8 straight to make the playoffs last yr. this yr, he last more games to injury than any team in the history, wound up in lotto land and was fired after 2 playoffs appearences in 3 yrs.

The T-Wolves lost their 2nd leading scorer and all star for 30+ games to start this season. Terrel Brandon hasn't played in over a yr and a half and Joe Smith and Rod Strickland was in and out of the lineup constantly. With these lost of quality players how did Flip Saunders respond? He coached his TEAM to another 50 win season and 4th seed. Francis missed 15 games, Taylor missed the season and Glen Rice who was damaged good already didn't play much. How did last yrs Rockets and coaching staff respond? A trip to the lotto where they got they #1 pick in the draft. Thats a far cry from a championship coach who lost at best the 3rd best player and a washed up veteran player and not a all star.


At the end of the 01 season the NBA went to the new defensive rules. This rule was to limit the 1 on 1 play of teams like the Rockets. Instead of incorporating a system top utilize the playou have, all we heard was who they didn't have and why they couldn't incorporate this new offense. Had that "new" offense been in place during that injury plagued season and the younger players learning it,he resorted back to the same iso ball as before. Even Philly and the ultimate 1 on 1 player Iverson and company incorporated a more team ball concept. All we have heard from Rudy and staff is excuses. When are the results going to happen. Why does a trade have to happen instead of phasing in a team friendly offensive sytem? Because they are trying to make coaching as easy as possible for Rudy T.

He's still riding the merits of something he's done almost 10 yrs ago. Don't mind that he had the best player not named Jordan playing. Not to mention the same veteran team he had in 98 took the most double digit losses of any playoff team. Lets not forget the team that Clearly had more talent than Utah in 97 was outplayed. If Rudy T's coaching was a stock, this would be theworse stock to have since 99, yet some still believe. I don't.

 

Of course there is, what? There is nothing more worse than losing the players belief in you or your system...which is purely a player mgmt issue...and often indicative of choosing the system for the players. That equals bad execution, every time. However, it is not the same the other way around. Bad execution does not mean the players are playing below their ability, we just want to believe they are playing significantly below their ability...because that means we don't have to admit that Steve Francis is the most overrated player in the NBA.

This is especially true if you factor in that consistency is part of one's abililty...the mental part.

That's why Pat Riley doesn't get the disrespect around here that Rudy does, even though they are largely identical coaches. That's also why Larry Brown's speeches about getting Iverson to change have deflected any criticism about how he was running an identical offense to Rudy until this year. Maybe Francis/Rudy need that one more year, too, like Iverson and Brown did?

if you are unable to get Francis to change fast, IVerson to change, or get Mourning to settle down in the playoffs, there is not much of a reason to believe that just any next coach will either, especially when you can clearly see that Mourning/Iverson actually define what it means to play hard.

So when in doubt, you stick with Riley, Rudy and Larry...it's not a crime to take that conservative route. It is not "very dumb."

I don't fire Rudy just for results for a rookie coach. I would "replace" Rudy for an equally proven coach....if this franchise falls into a revolving door of coaches who can't get the likes of Cato/Mo/Griffin to play hard, or the likes of Francis to listen...then we would have just thrown away all the stability that Rudy and CD brought to this franchise.

Like Les Alexander...there is no way I'm risking the stability established by management going on 12 yrs now that has players wanting to play here and has Yao fans referring to Rudy as the Soup Commander...for just any coach.

You wouldn't expect the Lakers to fire Del Harris for a rookie would you? I want a coach who commands respect on Day 1, and doesn't have to earn it. This mentally fragile team of ours needs a Soup Commander and nothing less.

 

ugh, no edit,

I meant to say..."and often indicative of choosing the <b>wrong</b> system for the players. "

 

No, I'm not right. I'm talking out my ass just like MManal said. And my solutions are "very dumb."

btw: good thing we didn't take Fizer like MManal said would be a "great star." Kenny is so much the better player. But that's right, Rudy's drating sucks. You do realize Clutch, that MManal is shaken ever since that prediction didn't pan out. All bark running with his legs between his draftsource.ass.

 

Why is this an argument...

Let me explain again. Fitch was previously fired for a bad system that Bird didn't believe in. His earlier championship was won by Bird, just like Westhead's was won by Magic, and Westhead was fired by for bad system.

Cheney was fired for not getting the team to run a system that Hakeem wanted. Rudy ran that.

Riley ran that.

Guys who win championships do not get fired, unless the superstar does it.

Who cares that the Rockets were dumb enough to think Fitch was good, and it took them awhile to realize they needed to fire him like Bird did.

That's the whole point. Dnnt' select someone in a rash decision, like we did Fitch.

ummm, they didn't fire him for Kurt Rambis. They fired him for Phil Jackson, and we all know it.

 

I've repeatedly said; I 100% agree with firing for losing the star or losing the team as a group. I never said that is the only reason to change coaches...it is just cheap argumentation to suggest I did. Even if Francis isn't Bird, Sprewell wasn't either, and GS eventually fired Carlesimo, and a lot of that had to do with the Sprewell incident.

Rudy hasn't done that. He brings stability, and we are taking that too much for granted whenever we compare it to revolving door coaching.

If you fire Rudy for results, you might be firing the wrong person. Francis might be the one to fire. If you take that risk, get someone really good.

This isn't a must fire situation...imo.

 

First of all, I have never criticized Rudy's drafting. I have actually commended the front office for their drafting abilities b/c they do a good job of getting players who translate well into the NBA game and fit the system. The Rockets have made their mistakes ie passing Rashard Lewis, but by and large they do a good job. Secondly, Marcus Fizer's numbers have been improving steadily each season (his FG% has gone up every yr) and he had his best season averaging 12-6 on 47% shooting. That btw is pretty solid esp. considering how awful that draft was. Marcus Fizer wont truly hit his stride imo until he leaves Chicago; the Bulls are a terrible player development organization in the post Jordan era. The only drafted player in the post Jordan era that reached his potential in Chicago was Elton Brand. Also, absolutely no scout, draft analyst or team is correct 100% of the time, that is why busts happen. A players success not only depends on how good is talent is, but also how hard he works, the organization he is drafted to, etc. Anyone who claims themselves to be right all the time on draft matters is either lying or does not make any predictions in their analysis (just re-gurgitates stats and accomplishments.)

Oh and btw, since you decided to touch on the topic, your solutions dont make logical sense. You've been saying all season that the pieces on this team would fit together b/c the Rockets would run this high post Sacto style offense that does not requires guards that need to create. New flash, no team can run the same play 80 times a game. Even Sacto who runs this offense you talk about has sets where Bibby or Christie create off the pnr. Maybe in your closed world of watching tape all day long you dont see the big picture, but no matter who your center is, the perimeter players do have to create a certain pct of the offense.

Its funny how you call out the Marcus Fizer thing when you have made some extremely stupid statements in your time. Remember the comment about Rashard Lewis being "Robert Horry without defense" or how you said it would take Rudy two yrs to implement a true motion offense from the time when Barkley went down and Francis and Mobley started getting big PT? I have no idea what you are referring to me being "shaken" in my predictions. It sure didnt affect me to make the prediction about 15 games into the season that this team would be extremely inconsistent and the talent would not fit together and then later on state that the team would not make the playoffs. All the time while you were talking about your stupid ass zone flattening bs offense that would make this team into some kind of juggernaut.

 

Was drafting Bryce Drew and Jason Collier smart?

 

MManal, still defending Fizer. lol

give it up, man.

The rest of your post is bark and bite. Mostly bark with your tail between you draftsource.ass. If you want to talk NBA Xs and Os, start with describing Dallas's Offense.

You will be the first person on the BBS to describe Dallas, if you do. And, let me give you a hint, it starts with the coaching philosophy of "flattening zones."

 

btw: since I don't have edit, I'd like to ask MManal exactly how many times this year he has insulted me with no retort.

All bark and no response....

 

HP,

Your completely missing the point. My goal is not to sit around like you and try to pore over tapes trying to discover single plays. I dont try to overhear Rudy making play calls and get excited when hearing something like '24 High'. This mentality completely misses the big picture. The point you have been trying to make the whole season is that it doesnt matter that the Rockets guards are inept at creating b/c the Rockets can run an offense like Sacramento. Sure there are instances where Divac catches up high and pulls big men away allowing the guards to cut backdoor and such. However, the Kings dont run this as their ONLY half court offense. There are a lot of times where they have to run simple screen and rolls where Bibby or Christie have to make a proper reads and decisions which Francis and Mobley suck at. If your guards are horrible decision makers, your team will never be elite no matter how dominant the center is. You can try to overexaggerate your lame Sacramento example, but its like comparing apples to oranges.

Btw, how did Kenny Thomas at the SF experiment go that you were trying to convince everyone would work? Maybe you can ask Rudy about it next time you call into his radio show.

 

HP,

No retort? You call taking cheap shots at draftsource no retort? You call continuously harping on Marcus Fizer no retort?

Btw, I am just so tired of reading the stuff you post over and over. First you've been trashing people for yrs for their "dreamcasting" then you spend several posts talking about a Francis for Kidd swap like it is some type of sure thing. Unbelievable.

 

See Clutch's Iverson/Brown example. Despite the rift there, they've made the playoffs several years in a row, because even though they may not like each other, Brown can coach an Iverson-led Sixers team. A Sixers team that was the ONLY team to beat the Lakers in a playoff game a couple years ago.

You're going around making these logically fallacious arguments. You seem to be basing this on us replacing Rudy with a rookie coach. Who said anything about a "rookie coach"? People aren't exactly clamoring for Larry Smith to take over the job. Do you think there won't be a single other veteran coach available this year?

I'm still failing to see any relevant answer to my question (which was partly rhetorical in nature). I stated "In terms of results, is there much difference between losing the respect of the players, and being unable to get them to execute?" You say without the respect, they'll be unable to execute. Even if your premise is true (which based on the counterexample of Iverson-Brown, it isn't), then it's the exact same thing. Losing their respect and being unable to get players to execute will get you at best (or worst) the same results as not being able to get them to execute. That's the end all. Everything else is just a circuitous argument. Is this idea that you're introducing Francis is the most overrated player in the NBA just some random idea to attract attention? This argument seems to indicate that Rudy is more important to the Rockets' success than Francis is. There is a difference between poor execution and mis-utilization.

Further, on a team with Yao Ming seemingly destined to become a premier player in the NBA, why is the worry so much on Francis? I seriously doubt Yao would pitch a fit about any coach, or anything for that matter.

Just like the idea that if we make one coaching change after Rudy's over a decade worth of coaching, we're potentially starting a revolving door. Exaggerate much?

BTW, way to find a way to make your token Kenny Thomas reference. It still boggles my mind how you can attack someone for what you consider to be a poor prediction- despite the fact Fizer averaged more ppg than Kenny, came out a year early, and has a year less experience, plus missed a large portion of the season to a fluke injury, I'd hardly consider KT being better than Fizer a done deal. Especially considering you undoubtedly hold the most infamous faulty prediction on the board. Not only did we draft Griffin with possible intent on playing him at the 3 (before MoT went down), we acquired Rice, and spent a 1st rounder on Morris who was ahead of Langhi on the depth chart.