1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Teams that consistently pick in the lottery...consistently pick in the lottery

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by TheFreak, Mar 17, 2002.

Tags:
Page 2 of 2
  1. RocksMillenium

    RocksMillenium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,018
    Likes Received:
    508
    You read my mind DaDa. I agree drafting high in the draft wouldn't be bad. I'd prefer not to and have the players learn to win. But I would rather package draft pick for veteran help. I'm pretty sure you could package lottery picks with undesirable contracts you want to dump and get something nice in return. People say the players that are hurt are terrible defensive players, well guess what? So is Toronto players for the most part, and Milwaukee, and even Minnesota and Seattle and Dallas. They play good team defense, but Houston could be just as good, if not a better defensive unit then any of those clubs. In fact Houston has everything they need except for a proven SF and that could change with Mo getting healthy and Griff and Mo upfront. If Cato continues to improve our starting lineup is fine. That is when Houston could use some veteran help to add depth to the bench. Unless there is something big time coming out of the draft that Houston can get it would be nice to trade that pick for some help. This team is already young enough with a solid core.
     
    #21 RocksMillenium, Mar 18, 2002
  2. alaskansnowman

    alaskansnowman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 1999
    Messages:
    1,961
    Likes Received:
    9
    Clutch and Tacoma said it all...
     
    #22 alaskansnowman, Mar 18, 2002
  3. Swopa

    Swopa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 1999
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great example. Here's one on the other side of the argument:

    In that same year (1999-2000), the Dallas Mavericks entered the last quarter of their schedule with a record of 24-37. But despite being clearly out of the playoff picture, they ended the season on an amazing 16-5 run to finish 40-42 (they still missed the playoffs by 4 games ... only a 21-0 finish would have gotten them in).

    Had they continued winning and losing at their previous rate, the Mavs would have wound up tied with the Cavs for the #8 pick. Instead, they drafted at #12, selecting Etan Thomas.

    On the one hand, they missed out on the chance to draft Mihm, Joel Pryzbilla, Keyon Dooling, or Jerome Moiso. On the other hand, in 2000-2001, Dallas went 53-29 and made the second round of the playoffs. The teams they passed in the standings during their closing kick in 2000 -- Cleveland, Houston, Denver, and Boston -- were all in Secaucus, NJ, again for the 2001 lottery. Three of those four teams will be there again this May. Dallas is gunning for a division title and wondering if they have enough to knock off the Lakers.

    Was "learning to win" more than an empty cliche for the Mavs in '99-'00? I think so.

    :cool:
     
    #23 Swopa, Mar 18, 2002
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2002
  4. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2000
    Messages:
    15,289
    Likes Received:
    3,261
    This example is a bit of an abberation, Swopa. The season you are referring to where Dallas finished so strong happened to coincide with one of the weakest drafts in history. Had the Mavs gotten a low pick in any of the other drafts they would have had a shot at a pretty good player. Besides, suggesting that them finishing on the hot streak is the reason they played so well next season is not something you can come even close to proving. That team was VERY talented even in the 40-42 season. I for one think they would have done just as well had they finished that season poorly.
     
    #24 RunninRaven, Mar 18, 2002
  5. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,574
    Likes Received:
    33,245
    IT'S CLEVELAND . .they would have probably taken Mohm anyway
    The Clippers just LUCKED into Elton brand. . .

    I think the Org is more important than the posiiton
    (ok . .the position does help)

    If the Rockets get the #1 pick in the draft. . . . then they the
    kings of the off season . . could make some wonderful deal

    But I hate tanking. . it is so .. . uncompetivie. . It just goes against my ethics


    rocket river
    YES I DO HAVE ETHICS!!!
     
    #25 Rocket River, Mar 18, 2002
  6. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 1999
    Messages:
    18,309
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    tpl:

    I don't look towards the lottery for that. A draft pick is going to need time to develop -- rarely do they conceal anyone's immediate weaknesses. Free agency or trades are usually used to address immediate weaknesses.


    Clutch:

    Maybe if all else is equal. If you asked me, would you rather have the 9 pick or the 6 pick, well of course I'd take the 6. But I'm not here to argue that the 9 is better than the 6 -- I'm saying that neither pick matters that much in the grand scheme of things, and that chemistry-building is more important. 'More lottery balls' has never mattered for the Rockets (post coin flip).

    But the Rockets have snagged all their building blocks without worrying about where they finish in the lottery standings -- Steve Francis: trade, Cuttino Mobley: draft (2nd round), Eddie Griffin: trade, Kenny Thomas: draft (low first round), Maurice Taylor: free agent, Moochie Norris: CBA, Kelvin Cato: trade, Oscar Torres: free agent, Terence Morris: draft (2nd round).....and they had a shot to miss the playoffs for only two years if not for injury. They've demonstrated that they don't need high draft choices to improve and rebuild. Why does that have to change now?

    Wow, a lot depended on that one game, huh? Maybe the teams ahead of the Rockets in the draft should have won more games that year and they could have had a shot at trading with Milwaukee and New Jersey too? You look at it as 'it's good they lost the last game of the year', while I look at as it's good that they overachieved and won so many games, and doing that worked out for them in the end.

    The two teams would still be in the same spot if Cleveland picked first and New Jersey picked 8th -- trading for Jason Kidd is the reason New Jersey is a contender in the East. Kenyon Martin has little to do with it. The Rockets got as good of a player as Martin in the low first round in Kenny Thomas, and he's not a cheap shot artist. That's actually a good example of how finishing in the lottery every year has done little for New Jersey.
     
    #26 TheFreak, Mar 18, 2002
  7. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2000
    Messages:
    25,432
    Likes Received:
    13,390
    This is where I disagree. I don't know how we can honestly say, one way or another, at this point, if the Rockets truly do have all their building blocks. We just won't know until their healthy.
     
    #27 JayZ750, Mar 18, 2002
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 2

Share This Page