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Team Identity - and proper development practices - too many like players

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    One of the biggest issues is finding out your team's identity, every year it changes, as players come and go, yet this roster is unique.

    We have too many like skilled players, guys that are relatively close in ability, the guys at the end of the bench are just as good as the starters, this is NOT a good thing, you end up with a mess trying to play too many players, and you sacrifice valuable development time by playing those that are not part of your future.

    To me, that is what we have right now, there are some pieces we need to move on from or sit, that would take valuable development time away from those that need it. You just can't play 15 people, you need to pare down to 9 or 10 at the most.

    Here are the players we should be playing/developing sprinkled with those that can help development and here are those that we should jettison as they will NOT be part of the team when it becomes decent again.

    Developing players - got to find out which players are real NBA talents and which just don't have it.

    KPJ
    Green
    Sengun
    Wood
    KmJ
    Brooks
    Garuba
    Christopher
    Mathews
    Nix

    That is 10 right there - so we already need to trim down those with like skills - can't play them all. Christoper and Nix to the G- league until others fall out of favor.

    Then we have a few veterans you can sprinkle in but should all be traded ASAP because they are just not guys that are good enough to stick around long term - and playing them stops the development of someone that has a much higher ceiling.

    Gordon
    Augustine
    House
    Theis
    Tate
    NWaba

    We should be looking to trade all of them at some point during the season and may include some of the developing players too, if we don't have the time to develop them.

    Then, we have players that just should not be on the roster - and should not be taking any time at all - just emergency players unless they surpass some above.

    Wall

    So you see, we have SO many players that need playing time to develop, and far too many on the roster to play them all. I have yet to see Silas settle on a 10 man rotation - but that is what he needs to do for proper development.....

    Stone has done a good job of finding the talent, but Silas needs to put on his hard hat and tell some they are JUST not going to play - otherwise we are going to waste this entire season, or the players that we NEED to develop are going to do so much slower than if they were playing every night.

    Who would you guys put in your 10 man rotation?

    Mine is here:

    Starters:
    PG - KPj
    SG - Green
    PF - Sengun
    C - Wood
    SF - KMJ

    Backups
    PG - Augustine
    SG - Gordon
    PF/C - Garuba
    SF - House/Tate

    Brooks is the specialist and 11th man - but would not get consistent minutes......

    Once we trade players - others can get their shot.

    But right now there is ZERO chance of developing chemistry - we have too many like pieces.....IMHO - and I don't want to waste this year.

    DD
     
    #1 DaDakota, Oct 21, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
  2. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    I would agree with most of that if I thought winning was in the best interests of the 2021 Rockets.

    To me, this season is all about determining where the cream is and waiting for it to rise to the top. 2021 is a 82 game tryout. Next year, maybe, we might start to see moves that even the roster and have chemistry and diversity in mind. But right now, its about accumulating and developing talent.

    Not to the media, but I am betting the Rockets brass is counting losses, not wins this year.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    Yeah, this is not about wins and losses but about development time and figuring out WHOM you are going to develop and whom should be moved on....

    You can't play too many or your r****d the growth of those that really need it, so IMHO, you need to identify those you think are going to be there in 3 years and play them every night, major minutes...

    DD
     
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  4. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    There is a strategy to it to be sure, but an argument could be made (not by me) that the questionable guys are the ones we need to see a lot of, at least early in the season.
     
  5. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member
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    We seem to be locked into the "2 playing the 1" syndrome. KPJ, Green, JC, et al.

    That's great but Harden is gone. We have no consistent point, too many swings, and.....Silas.
     
  6. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    Call me crazy but having Sengun as the primary initiator of the offense with KPJ and Green playing dual scoring threats sounds doable. I'm not saying Sengun is on the same level as a Jokic but, for now, you got two starting guards who are clearly operating in the mindset of scoring and you have a pretty good passing power forward who has the ability to create and find the open teammate so why not experiment with that?

    The organization can continue to try and turn KPJ into a point guard but if it continues to cause unnecessary stagnation in the offense, it wouldn't hurt to try something else.
     
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  7. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member
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    Yes, but Green at PG and KPJ at SG.
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    That is entirely the point though, we have ALL questionable guys - at some point you need to identify whom you are going to develop and whom you are going to sit, because you can't play them all without slowing the growth of everyone.....

    DD
     
  9. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    Two sides of a coin. Playing less may slow growth a bit, I agree. But it also gives you a better look at the other guys. Makes it a bit less likely that someone who develops more slowly than others or a guy that needs minutes to find his game slips away and becomes productive somewhere else.
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota Contributing Member

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    That is what the G league is for, and injuries.......I guess we shall see, but I would prefer we pick our 4-5 players we are developing and surround them with vets to help them develop...rather than everyone try to develop at once.....without any on court teaching.

    DD
     
  11. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    I agree with DD, except for Tate. Tate proved his value last year, and will be even more valuable once we have a good enough team to where he's the 6th or 7th best player. He's exactly the kind of guy that teams covet because they're so hard to find, the potential no-stats All-Star.

    As for Brooks, he needs to get used to knocking down those shots in the first minute or two off the bench, because that 3-pointer is the only reason he's even in the league. If he's going to require more than 5 minutes of playing time to get it going, he'll find himself playing in China soon.
     
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  12. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

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    I honestly think it's as simple as too many one on one, Harden step back wannabes, undersized, cross over specialists , undisciplined; brats being coached by a dude that signed up for something totally different, youngsters...
     
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  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous

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    Sounds crazy, but I'm going to say having the worst roster in the NBA for the second year running, somewhat by design, is going to maybe throw a monkeywrench into this chemistry.

    And chemistry abhors a monkeywrench. They teach you that on day 1 in chemistry school.
     
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  14. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    THIS
     
  15. HI Mana

    HI Mana Member

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    The G-League is structured a bit different this year, with the first part of the season being a showcase tournament with a home-and-home round robin opening. The Vipers are only going to be playing 12-15 games between November and Dec 30th, before playing a 36-game schedule between January and the end of March. Looking at that, I think it probably makes the most sense for most of the young guys to stay with the big club until after Christmas, since they're really not going to be getting much extra work in even if they go to the G-League. Having the coaching staff see who is willing to put in the work after games, and who is consistently showing out in practice is probably more valuable than them training in RGV with guys way below their talent level. It worked really well for KPJ because it let him recover mentally away from the spotlight. I think it would be very counterproductive for a guy like Garuba, since the G-League has a dearth of talented big-men that will challenge him beyond what he already saw in the ACB.

    I would imagine that after Dec 15th, injuries around the league and the lifting of trade restrictions on recently signed free agents will allow for guys like EJ/House/Augustin to be moved to contenders. At that point, hopefully Sengun has also secured the starting role, and a natural hierarchy will have developed with the players.

    So it will probably be a bit crowded and chaotic for the first 20-30 games. But I have faith that things are going to settle out naturally as time goes by. I'd rather the coaching staff and management be a bit slow on making the correct decision, over being too hasty to make the wrong one.
     
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  16. dmoneybangbang

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    This is the first full season of a rebuild, this seems pretty natural.
     
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  17. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    per NBA.com player stats "Play Type"

    19/20 Isolations
    Harden (w/D'Antoni)....45.0% (freq)....1.12 (ppp)...91.5 (NBA percentile)
    Doncic (w/Silas)...........15.0% (freq)....1.02 (ppp)...81.8 (NBA percentile)
    20/21 Isolations
    Harden (w/Silas)..........33.6% (freq)....1.09 (ppp)....87.5 (NBA percentile) 8 games
    Doncic (w/o Silas).......16.7% (freq).....1.09 (ppp)...80.2 (NBA percentile)

    19/20 PnR (Ball Handler)
    Harden (w/D'Antoni)....17.9% (freq).....0.98 (ppp)...82.0 (NBA percentile)
    Doncic (w/Silas)..........46.3% (freq).....1.04 (ppp)...89.4 (NBA percentile)
    20/21 PnR (Ball Handler)
    Harden (w/Silas)..........29.4% (freq).....1.19 (ppp)...97.3 (NBA percentile) 8 games
    Doncic (w/o Silas)........47.7% (freq)....1.01 (ppp)...82.7 (NBA percentile)

    Summary: the Silas system was implemented and the foundation set in Dallas....continued
    more or less after Silas took the Rockets job. Mavs have claimed the Seth Curry
    trade for Josh Richardson was a mistake on their part and hurt their efficiency.
    Armoni Brooks is our sharp shooting Seth Curry minus any ball handling.

    Harden went from Isolation heavy with D'Antoni to running more PnR as Ball Handler
    with Silas. From 17.0% to 29.4%. Silas likes the PnR action as a main staple to his
    offense.
    __________________
    Honorable mention for Rockets last season with Silas: PnR Ball Handler:
    Wall.....36.7% (freq).....0.81 (ppp)....40.6 (NBA percentile)
    Dipo....35.5% (freq).....0.88 (ppp)....56.7 (NBA percentile)
    E Go....29.9% (freq)....1.10 (ppp).....93.0 (NBA percentile)
    KPjr.....39.8% (freq).....0.77 (ppp)....30.1 (NBA percentile)
    Augustin 44.3% (freq)..1.03 (ppp)...86.4 (NBA percentile)

    So when you speak of identity and Silas I see Pick-n-Roll first and foremost.
    I would bring in another 3-pt shooter to help space the court to help
    unclog the restricted area. Start the regular 5 but quickly insert Sengun
    and Armoni Brooks after the first 5 minutes of the game.

    Starters
    Eric Gordon
    Green......sub out for Armoni after first 5 minutes
    KPjr
    Wood
    Theis.......sub out for Sengun after first 5 minutes

    these substitutions allow Eric Gordon and Armoni to help space the floor
    by sitting in each corner predominantly. Sengun-Porter both acting as
    facilitators in different ways. Porter by way of PnR, hand offs, off screens,
    and Isolations. Sengun by way of Post Up, Hand Off's, Weave up top
    (passing/driving) hitting cutters along the baseline.

    Stagger substitutions after that:
    starters:
    Eric Gordon
    Green.............Armoni.......stagger PG/SG with Porter/Green/EGo/Armoni
    Porter Jr............................stagger in KMjr/Tate/Porter
    Wood
    Theis.............Sengun.......stagger PF/C with Theis/Sengun/Wood

    So my 9 would be: (in no particular order)
    1) Porter jr
    2) Green
    3) Eric Gordon
    4) Wood
    5) Kenyon jr
    6) Theis
    7) Sengun
    8) Tate
    9) Armoni

    Sengun running the hub of the offense allows Green/Porter to act as Slashers/cutters.
    I want Green/Porter to see the court from another perspective. See what the cutters
    or slasher sees. This in turn helps when they facilitate and can then anticipate the
    cutter/slasher.....when the spacing improves.

    At the moment Porter is not helping Green in PnR by creating space and vice versa.
    Separating Porter/Green more often and bringing in a sharp shooter so can actually
    improve their PnR Ball Handling skills.....then bring them together more often when
    they become more proficient in PnR, Cutting, Slashing, 3-pt shooting.

    Garuba and Christopher join the gang when they show improved skills.
    Rockets need to find a point guard defender that can hit 3's. One not in
    their 30's like Avery Bradley.

    *Hard to label positions for some of these players. Rule of thumb is who they
    defend is their title. So Green to me is Point-SG. Porter is Point-SF. Sengun is
    Point-Center. Wood is Point-PF......all facilitating in their own ways.
     
    #17 ApacheWarrior, Oct 21, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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  18. hlmbasketball

    hlmbasketball Member

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    I have said this numerous times before. They have too many of the same type players, so it's hindering players growth. Why resign Nwaba when you have KMJ? KMJ needs playing time

    We have NO shooters, they just signed Garrison Matthew's, hopefully that helps.

    They need a 6'10" 3/4 that can defend and rebound. Vanderbilt would have been nice on this team. Instead we keep going the 6'6 - 6'7" range player who can't shoot....I thought that was going out with Morey but I guess not.
     
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  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Not really, the Rockets are best at the 4 and 5 with Sengun, Wood, and Theis. The team's biggest problem is that they don't have any competent guards.
     
  20. leangle25

    leangle25 Member

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    I might be crazy but i feel C.Wood doesnt suit this timeline.
    With Harden, yes. With a bunch of players who are still learning the game and figuring out their role? No.
    Wood will take their touches away because he does feel he is the "Star" of the team. Imagine Wood touches turnes into Sengun post ups.
     

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