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Team ball or iso ball?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JW86, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    So let’s discuss what to me is key in why I won’t mind moving on from Harden and Westbrook: do you want another season of watching Harden trying to get open, double-teamed, us trying to force him the ball followed by dribble dribble step back, drive or (frustratingly) kick it out to mediocre shooters or Westbrook trying to drive during which all 4 teammates stand around watching

    OR
    a team oriented game where the ball moves, bodies move, off the ball screens etc? Where we use all spots on the floor, guys shoot more than just threes? Why it’s a clear or is because Harden is just not going to change. He feels his style is good enough, it’s all he knows, Morey’s probably convinced him his iso style and no mid-range is the best way to win. I can’t really blame him. But this option is just not there with Harden on the team.

    For me it’s clearly option #2 and I’ve been hating watching us play for years. It’s frustratingly mind numbing and I’m done with it. Don’t care if it’s effective, it cost us a chance to beat the Warriors in Game 7. Injuries be damned, a versatile offense would’ve won that game, plain and simple.

    Now would I welcome Harden trying to make it work with Silas? Damn straight. He’s still a great player and Silas could probably diversify his game and add some offensive sets that would make us much more successful as a team.

    See, I don’t blame players for being upset with their roles under MDA. They should be! Even with irregular minutes, you can bet your ass if players had more touches, a chance to initiate the offense more or actually plays called for them, they would’ve been content.

    Regardless there’s a new coach so who’s to say my two scenarios are even valid? Point taken, but again, I don’t see Harden changing nor Silas trying to change a lot to the point of us playing a lot less iso, with suddenly everyone getting touches and using all kinds of sets that involves a lot of movement and passes. That’s a lot more likely with Harden and Westbrook gone.

    All in all, I rather play team ball and lose then continue this iso ball and win. And no, this is nothing like the argument ppl made when Tracy was here. We actually played versatile, through Rafer, Yao, Scola, Artest and T-Mac. Hayes and Battier got touches under Adelman. And it’s not a hate Harden and Westbrook argument or thread, if they’d embrace a more team oriented approach, I’d want them back. But it’s clear that’s not in the cards.
     
  2. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    If Harden/Westbrook stay for a while, Silas already said he's not going to change a ton of things -- just inject some new wrinkles to make the offense and defense less predictable. If they get traded, who knows. It depends on what star(s) we get, but I'm guessing whoever comes here will be part of more offensive movement if the Mavs' offense is any indication. If the rumors about Harden wanting out are true, I really don't care what Harden wants anymore, tbh. If he's doing it as a ploy to get more help here, that's different. In any case, I'm to the point, I care more about the next era of Rockets basketball and what Silas is going to do to command it.
     
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  3. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    I want to win, Idgaf if we’re playing like the 02 Kings or not as long as we’re winning and a contender

    ISO-ball wasn’t an issue or an eyesore in 17-18 because the team was elite and winning

    stuff like “I’d rather play team ball and lose than ISO ball and win” is dumb to me, but many on this board idolize those mediocre 14th pick squads so no surprise there
     
    sydmill, s3ts and HP3 like this.
  4. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    I knew someone would zone in on that, fine. I can respect winning at all cost, why can’t you respect people who care more about how we play?
     
  5. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Blaming Harden is short sighted. You’re avoiding the real question. With or Without Harden.....
    Can this organization build a champion? Honestly? With the current leadership/ ownership?
     
    s3ts likes this.
  6. Derp McFlopsky

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    Harden's enigmatic unwillingness to play off the ball combined with his otherworldly greatness with the ball has been a problem that doesn't seem to have a solution.
     
  7. riko

    riko Member

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    Enjoy you’re ball movement with a bunch of role players and a lottery bound team. I want to win.
     
  8. mac_got_this

    mac_got_this Member

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    I don’t understand why we couldn’t enjoy the best of both worlds but it’s been one or the other the last couple years
     
  9. topfive

    topfive CF OG
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    This. I'd settle for dumping it to Wilt in the paint every damn possession if it gets us to the finals.
     
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  10. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    I mean, do u, but they can move the ball around all they want, if the team is mediocre-garbage, then Idc

    none of those post-Yao/pre-Harden seasons with all that ball and player movement were better than any Harden era season except for 15-16

    if they’re really good while playing some movement heavy style, then great, obviously I’d prefer that over Morey ISO ball, but stuff like “I’d rather lose and move the ball”...Wtf?
     
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  11. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    It doesn't matter anymore.

    Our contending days are over.
     
  12. jb86

    jb86 Member

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    Team ball wins championships. Iso ball does not. Last time I checked, you don't play for stats. You play to win the game. Ultimately, you have to play team ball to get to the top. Why? Because basketball is a team sport.
     
  13. kingkingston

    kingkingston Member

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    You need both
     
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  14. kingkingston

    kingkingston Member

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    Sort of not true. The Lakers dumping the ball to Davis is a form of iso ball. LeBron dribbling at the top of the key before making his mind up whether to pass or drive, is a form of iso ball

    You need all type's of play to win a title. People only judge or make their minds up on what you need because of whoever wins the title.
     
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  15. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

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    Name one current team that utilize team play that you would rather watch over harden.

    Hell what recent team won with tru team play? Stupid take in my opinion that u rather watch everyone share the ball and lose than hardens game style.

    Edit: responded to wrong dude.
     
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  16. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    yup , you need to keep the ball moving and get everyone involved to keep focus up and lower the load . But too much ball movement is ripe for turning the ball over and it’s been true for many many years that defenses can force your hand one way or the other . You need guys who can create for themselves when defense’s clamp down in crunch time
     
    HP3 likes this.
  17. HardenVolumeOne

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    we had team ball under rick adelman and didnt win much, or if we did, we got knocked out in the first round to crappy jazz teams

    team ball or warriors brand of ball only works when you have elite role players and a bunch of all stars. For instance what happened to the warriors last year. Hardens way of playing is more effective if you want to win but dont have the talent of other teams
     
  18. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Blaming Harden is short sighted. You’re avoiding the real question. Can this organization build a champion? Honestly? With the current leadership/ ownership?
     
    jb86 likes this.
  19. jb86

    jb86 Member

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    At the end of the day the defense that was played by this team was "Team Ball". Thats the main reason why they won the championship. CHALLENGE!!!
     
  20. Denovo

    Denovo Member

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    iso ball wasn’t an issue back then because we had two players who could produce efficiently. They also couldn’t double Harden with Paul playing effectively.

    we aren’t winning with Westbrook ISO’s and role players failing to score in a 4 v 3 situation.

    the system is too predictable and needs to be diversified.

    Iso ball is needed but we rely on it way too much
     

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