Wow, this thread really got off track. Was about to comment on being surprised that Teague was offered so much, but I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in on the Lin vs. Teague debate. Personally, if I were a Lin fan, I wouldn't be so quick to equate Teague with Lin. The reason is the following. Morey traded for James Harden last season. The Bucks traded for Monte Ellis. Morey signed Delfino to a 1-yr $3mil contract with a 2nd year team option. The Bucks signed a 1-year older, injured Delfino to a 2-yr/$6mil contract with a 3rd year team option. Morey traded Patterson for Thomas Robinson, then forced by the Dwight signing, traded Robinson for basically 4 2nd rounders. The Bucks traded a bright prospect in Tobias Harris for JJ Redick, and then traded Reddick for 2 2nd rounders despite having no superstar to sign. Morey signed Dwight Howard to $20.5mil this offseason. The Bucks signed OJ Mayo, Teague, and Zaza for combined $21mil this offseason. So, if Morey signed Lin to $8mil/yr, and the Bucks signs Teague for $8mil/yr, and they're comparable players. Then either Morey was smoking crack when he signed Lin, or the Bucks took a genius pill when they signed Teague.
Yup, it's worth noting that Teague played next to another ball dominant guard in Joe Johnson his first 3 years. He had his best year last year without JJ. Lin is already putting up comparable stats while playing next to Harden.
Only reason Lin got what he did was so the Knicks couldn't match. He was orginaly going to get 6 which is around where he should be. He should be in the Mario Chalmers range.
That's splitting hairs. There isn't any significant difference except maybe for turnovers and you could argue Lin makes up for that in other departments. Lin/Teague PER 14.9/15.8 TS .551/.538 AST36 5.3/6.8 TO36 2.2/3.2
Yes but you neglect to add the Harden effect. Can't leave that out. Players like Kobe and harden make players like Nash and Lin's numbers go down. Make them less relevant. Lin finished the season better than he played in New York and on a team using a traditional playmaker to run the offense Lin would have played better than he did in New York. Which is better than Teague. But instead of Lin gettin that benefit he gets penalized by the fans on here because he doesn't do more. I think this year that will change. harden may not like it but the ball needs to be in Lin's hands more for Howard to Prosper more. But we'll see what happens. In the end even you say they are close and I think so too only I put Lin ahead why do so many people hate on him for making a few extra bucks. He didn't make Houston pay him. Les loves the money Lin makes him which is much more than he spends.
In an offense where Teague was seemingly shackled and never able to fully play "his" game, he is going to a place where he can play alongside O.J. Mayo and do as he pleases offensively. Teague > Lin. Not even a debate, IMO. Good value in this contract by the Bucks. Surprised he didn't get more.
The only reason Lin got what he did was because Morey offered it to him. No one made Morey offer it to him. Lin is better than Chalmers and Teague. I don't get this board. Whose family did Lin harm. He is good kid who rarely complains, does what his asked and has improved every single month he has been with us. He passes decent, finished up shooting near 40% from behind the arc and can drive to the basket better any pg not named Parker, Paul, Williams, Rose, Irving, (forgive if I left out a couple). He only made 5 mil last year,and will make the same this year, Dragic 7.5. At least wait till he makes 15 mil before you judge him so harshly. He might not even be on the team by then. People cut Teague slack for being shackled but Lin was even more shackled and quite possibly Nash with Kobe was the only one more.
FWIW, Teague is a decent player but looks to be nearing his ceiling as a player. Lin still has some upside in my book.
You flipped the TS%. Lin was 53.8% with Harden and Teague was 55.2% with Joe. But I agree that I am splitting hairs. Teague is little better than Lin but not a lot IMO.
As you've seen with writers and butt hurt l.a fans, people can be stubborn and will keep pushing whatever preconceived notions they have. I do it with Westbrook. But in my defense, he plays for the enemy. I just don't like that guy. And I used to do it for Dwight, when he wasn't a rocket. It's probably frustrating having to change your game, lowry had to do it and didn't like it much, here and in toronto. like you said, in order for howard to get the best looks, lin or someone better at seeing the court has to play the point. having harden or bev handling all point guard duties will get us to another 8th seed. So if we're not getting parker, paul,curry,rondo, people should embrace lin. he has the skills. (see what I did, I didn't include Westbrook whom I hate)
I'm not sure I'm ready to group Nash and Lin together but I do agree that Harden has made Lin less effective. That in itself is a problem though because I consider the better basketball players to be the ones that can thrive in various situations. Harden was still a beast in OKC even though he was playing with Durant and Westbrook. Lin is going to have to learn how to be better even if he can't dominate the ball. I don't think the ball needs to be in Lin's hands more for Howard to prosper. Harden and Howard will make the best PnR combo in the league. What the Rockets really need is a defensive PG that can hit the open 3. I think Lin is overpaid but not ridiculously overpaid. I think the $6MM that Morey initially offered Lin is what he is worth to this team right now.
I could agree with the last line. it's a good point. but the first line about all you need is someone who plays defense and can shoot an open 3 is pure balogna sausage. Bev and his awesome D still allowed a back up pg and an 80 year old fisher to get his. the top point guards are going to score no matter what*. but how about having someone that can drop 20+ on curry twice, who can drop 20 on uncle drew, 38 and 20+ against parker. But all we remember is that last game he had against the spurs. Lin has a first step that iggy and tony allen looked silly attempting to stop it. The same guys that caused 8 turnovers on harden. That first step is a good weapon to have than just the three ball and eye ball test defense. Confident lin is worth every penny, not so confident lin well that's another issue. **unless they put lebron on them .
The details that youngshev03 said are true about the signing of Lin. Highlights were Morey feeling panicked about NYK matching so he altered the initial offer sheet of 5+5+9 to the more back loaded 5+5+15 at the 11th hour along with the restructured now infamous Poison Pill contract to stick it to NYKs claims of matching just about anything for Lin. Morey didn't know that we had signed Lin till the prerequisite time had passed. He said the he really thought that NYK would have matched till the announcement official. There were even reports of Grunwald dodging the formal submission of the offer for Lin. It was indeed in the range of 6m per initially till the NYK postured about matching the initial reports. This was all in Vegas. NY Times Article
How so? Teague's improved every year he's been in the league. Obviously he has to stop at some point but I wouldn't say he is at his ceiling.
He's not a natural PG so I'd be surprised if his assist numbers ever topped the 7 and change that he averaged this year. His instincts aren't particularly good and he has a tendency to get reckless. Offensively, he doesn't draw a lot of fouls. Between that and the fact that he's an unusual scorer (very good at the rim and up to 15 ft, outside of 15 ft - pretty bad). It pretty much limits him as a PnR player that can usually hit the open 3, but will likely never be a good mid-range or pull-up player due to his awkward off-the-shoulder set shot.
