Teachers

Assholes.

 

Okay, as a teacher I always have my students check their sources. Not a fan of using blogs for primary sources. Especially ones that are funded by the 74, an extremely partisan group that has an ax to grind. Your source is suspect, and the data is now suspect, sorry. What about this source https://work.chron.com/state-base-pay-teachers-texas-25785.html or this source https://www.tasb.org/services/hr-services/salary-surveys/documents/tchr-highlights-2019.pdf or this source that is equally as bad as yours https://www.teachersoftomorrow.org/texas/teacher-resources/teaching-in-texas-blog/minimum-salary Which one is the right source???? I can tell you one is much better than the other 2.

Cool last paragraph, did you copy and paste that from a website? Did not answer my question at all. Just a bunch of mumbo jumbo about nothing. So, what do you pay the profession from which all other professions originate? Answer the original question please, don't just word vomit back a poor answer.

 

Ball.

 

No, all of those school districts start at close to $60k. They have nearly identical salary schedules. I don't believe I ever said any of these school districts start teachers at $70k.

 

They shouldn't improve the benefits for teachers or offer pensions...... they should just increase the pay for teachers.

I have multiple family members that are teachers.... some work long hours and some work fairly standard hours. Some have figured out that they don't need to make major changes to their lesson plans and it goes on autopilot. They do have stressful jobs those as parents can be combative, they have to watch what they say and some students are challenging.

What I mostly hear is that it is hard but rewarding. I don't think that teachers are well thought of in general in the USA... much is made by parents and some students of them not making much money and them being employed to serve the students.

I wouldn't do it, but I think it is better than some other jobs that I have had or know of.

A lot of it seems to be that teachers just want to be treated with respect........ and increasing their pay would help in that regard.

 

I don't work for the government but I would think government salaries increase at a very slow place across the board compared to the private sector. I'm not sure what a good example would be off the top of my head. That's a known thing going in. @Nook worked for the government at one point. I'm sure he experienced slower/smaller pay raises then he has in the private sector.

Obviously, teachers also have tremendous benefits that need to be considered as well but nobody seems to bring that up.

The facts are the facts regarding spending per pupil. We spend more per pupil then almost every country in the world. There's no funding shortage. If the funds aren't getting to the right places, that's a separate issue.

 

What does a pay increase look like, for example a starting teacher in the Houston area will be making $58k as a 22 year old.

We also have to factor in the avalanche effect higher pay has on straining the pension system.

 

Really, I am okay with my pay. I can do research and understand what I make and budget accordingly. I am good with my investments and plan on being able to retire early. Most of that is due to my time in the financial sector and getting a leg up there. My journey is not other teachers journey so I will not speak for them.

Ultimately, what I want is people to back off telling me what my profession is, what I get and how my compensation is fair. I don't go to a doctors office and tell the doctor what they should be making and how their benefits are unfair to me as a patient. I don't tell my local cashier they are not allowed to complain about their pay or job because " you should just do the job for the kids, or the profession is the reward not the pay"

I don't even need a huge increase in pay. An increase in respect would go a long way towards making this job, easier, more enjoyable, and less stressful. All things I value as much or more than money.

 

Also meetings, reaching out to parents, lunch, personal errands, mmeetings.

The most eye opening thing to me was grading lessons and test I thought I could have everything done with an hour here or there.

Most teachers have around 50 to 70 students every day you are required to have 10 grades in every week most assignments are at least 10 questions most section test are 20 questions at least and those are at least by weekly sometimes weekly its takes time for multiple choice don't even get me started when essay questions or fill in the blank is involved.

There is no way you can grade everything in a planning period, or even 1 hour day before or after work, I think this is what is missed by the 180 days a year 7:30 to 3:30 people you have to devote at minimum 5 hours extra to just grading things sometimes more.

This is not a slight to you I just wanted to vent about how long grading takes and how eye opening it was when I 1st started.

I am a co-teacher now so I don't grade as much and teachers have online programs to test so that helps but you still have to create those lessons.

 

Seems the position of most sentient people discussing this is that teachers are underpaid (the one arguing the most claiming teachers are claiming to be "martyrs" not withstanding). Instead, most tend to focus on mismanagement of money or overspending (assuming in areas outside teacher salaries).

So curious as to what people think schools are mismanaging and what they are overspending on? Seems that should be the focus...

 

This is a great post. I have been teaching over 25 years. The school is my home away from home. Glad to see how many are still dedicated to the profession. I ignore people who put teachers down.

 

Probably true, but what does that mean in a discussion that teachers are currently underpaid.

"obviously"? If it was so obvious, then perhaps you can show how teachers benefits are better than other professional employees? My guess is that their benefits are not any better, and certainly not so much better to compensate for their low salaries. But again, show the benefits comparison... I could be wrong.

Actually, not the highest per capita. And not even in the top ten in per GDP.

https://www.compareyourcountry.org/...21/en/5/3059+3060+3061+3062+3063+3064/default

But... since you believe the United States is investing enough, in fact, too much on our children's education, then what is the correct fix? Cutting educational spending? Cutting spending on certain parts of education? And if so, what parts?

 

You are correct that they do increase at a slow pace. Right out of school, I worked for the City of Houston. I lasted three years there and over that time frame I saw my salary go up only $2k (they did annual 3% increases, although 2 years they didn't do it due to budget cuts). However, I do think that in many government jobs, you do have promotional opportunities that allow you to bump up your salary and I don't see that option as a teacher unless you transition over to administration. You can become department head or coach one of the teams, but that's only going to give you a small bump, yet you are burdened with a whole lot more responsibility which is not justified by the small bump you get. I think my BIL got a $4k raise by choosing to coach the soccer team and become department head. The job came with more hours, more headaches and only boosted his salary by $4k.

 

in many places teachers have tenure. very difficult to get rid of bad teachers or incompetent teachers

 

You do know you can look up what the increase every year and multiple people have given you examples.

The average pay increase is a little over 1000 dollars a year.

I don't understand what your question is?

I never said every white collar job pays that much and yes a CPA does not pay a lot, but that depends on where you are working.

A superintendent is not a teacher and frankly if a superintendent had the same level of responsibility in the corporate world they would be pushing 7 figures.

Yes teachers do have a massive gap considering their education level and the responsibilities, not saying there are not other similar white collar jobs, but most white collar jobs don't have the cap on salary that teachers do, CPA's don't really have a cap as their career advances.

I disagree that teacher pay is only an issue in high-cost areas, rural school districts don't pay a lot, and they have other issues as well.

 

We're discussing public sector employee compensation and much has been made about teacher pay and I think it's appropriate to look at how it works across the public sector.

I think getting paid something like 40% of your income every year guaranteed from retirement until death is a pretty substantial benefit. Pensions are pretty dope. They are tremendously expensive though, especially as life expectancy climbs and climbs and that's why they have been almost totally phased out of the private sector.

This is a different measurement and not something I claimed.

I said spending per pupil was consistently top 3. Which it is.

https://data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm

You can identify a problem without have a quick or easy solution. How do you reorganize and address the problem with public education spending in the United States? Let's take a look at where all that money is actually going and decide how to allocate those resources more efficiently. Pumping more money into it won't necessarily solve the problem. How the money is used it obviously a vital factor.

 

Well, it seems we are experts.

 

You don't understand my post. It was posed as a question as what type of pay increase @Nook proposed would look like.

 

Sure, that's a well known consideration when going to work in the public sector. Pay doesn't increase at the same rate that it might, or might not, in the public sector. It's slow and steady. And then you have your tremendous benefits. It's just a different compensation model.

and BTW, not everyone's pay increases at some tremendous rate in the private sector, some goes up exponentially, some goes up a little bit, some goes down exponentially, some goes down a little bit.

It's not as if everyone in the private sector is just seeing year after year huge increases in salary. Teachers are public sector workers, who like all public sector workers, see pretty slow and steady salary increases coupled with tremendous benefits.

 

Its not hard it just takes documentation and time for teachers that are underperforming. Now if its major, they get fired pretty quick.

In teaching we generally try to help teachers that are not up to snuff. I have worked with, mentored, and shadowed teachers and coaches that need help. You create an action plan and follow it. If they are not holding up their end, you now have documentation that justify why they should be let go. Still, we want to help and not just get rid of people.

Then again what's a bad teacher. Earlier I told of my Middle School science teacher that my cousin told me was the devil, I loved him and he was a major factor for me improving as a student and wanting to become a teacher. Who was right about that teacher?