giddyup, I'm not not dismissing your experience with tea party members, or your friend's, or his campaign manager's. I'm saying that regardless of what happened it doesn't change the facts that I mentioned. You are right those facts that I mentioned don't change what you experienced. I've always said that I don't believe the majority of tea baggers are racist. I'm not calling anyone anyone a naive idiot. I'm looking at data that whites who support the tea party are more likely to have racist views than whites who don't. I'm looking at the other facts I mentioned. The fact that people can encounter tea baggers and not have a racist incident is great. I also understand that they aren't a centrally organized group. My problem is that when they do decide to get organized it's to hide the fact there are racists among them, and deny it, rather than clean it up.
You offer up evidence from one locale; I offer up evidence from another locale. Surely you've seen this discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApYih-e-1KI Even David Gergen expresses doubts about the Capitol Hill "ugliness." I don't think anyone has claimed the money, have they? Your attempt is to reduce the whole TP movement to a subterfuge to legitimize racism. I know you claim that you aren't calling all TPers racists, but look at your quotation cited above: "when they do decide to get organized it's to hide the fact that there are racists among them, and deny it, rather than clean it up." Do you not realize what an extreme and agenda-driven position that is? And, in fact, it is nothing but a pet theory of yours. What is your evidence for that grand plan?
giddy, do you believe civil rights hero, John Lewis, the DC police, and other black congressmen are lying about this? You are talking about a made up standard of proof that doesn't exist anywhere in law. There is no requirement of video or audio for something to be proven true. We have eyewitness accounts, by reliable sources. These sources are far more reliable than Breitbart or anyone else offering up a reward. By the way money isn't up for anyone to claim, it goes to the United Negro College Fund. Also watching Gergen out there, he isn't saying that the word wasn't yelled at it the congressmen. All he said was that IF it wasn't they should try and get that message out there. He never once said they have a good point, or that he personally doubts the story. The funny thing is that the resistance is coming from a guy who released the edited tapes of the whole ACORN thing that were shown to be basically fiction and almost the opposite of what they tried to convey. Sorry a person who worked closely with MLK for civil rights trumps Breitbart. Especially when other eyewitnesses back up the claim, as do the DC police. Even if it wasn't true, that doesn't erase the other incidents of racism at the tea party. I never said they had a grand plan to introduce racism into politics. They invited a speaker to open their convention who advocated literacy tests as a voting requirement. That's racist. It was one of the main tools to keep minorities from voting before the civil rights movement. The guy was applauded. http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...rtiers-literacy-test-would-have-stopped-obama Find me evidence that the tea party came out against that, said it was a mistake or anything of the like... Here is a link about the tea party federation. I posted another link about it in another thread. http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/i...s-unite-in-national-tea-party-federation.html Breitbart which you posted is another example of tea baggers working hard to deny the racism which is evident repeatedly, rather than to eradicate it. It's nothing I made up, it's present in your own video, the tea party's official convention, the official tea party federation, etc. I've presented a ton of evidence showing where there concern is about the racism in the group. You show me evidence of an equal effort to wipe the racism out of their group.
I doubt they are lying. More likely they are exaggerating. Somebody shouted an isolated ugliness in a heated moment. It's not like there was, or ever has been, a rising crescendo of epithets at one of these things. We are not in a court of law. There are some serious doubts about the scale of these things. Video or audio would help to measure that, yet it is not available or discernible in the audio/video that exists. It does give pause. I disagree; go to the 2:20-2:50 segment of the clip... "... the accusation that he had been called the N-word and spat upon was a searing moment... many of us took it as "that's what happened"... if it didn't happen, I think it is important to know that... or if somebody was an impostor-- now maybe we'll never know." What's wrong with literate voters? Who doesn't have access to public education? Yeah, it's a much better arrangement to be able to "buy" voters with a free ride. That's a shining example of a democratic republic in action. Is there something of concern there? I glanced at it. Of course they are trying to gain clout for their mission. I have no doubt that there probably are some racists amongst the Tea Partiers as there are in the Democratic, Republican and Independent parties-- not sure about the Green Party. The Tea Parties are unwieldy public demonstrations. My candidate friend went to the one here yesterday. About 2,000 people were there. One incident of ugliness: a guy protesting the Tea Partiers was hauled away by police. True story: my friend had gone back to his car to get some more literature to hand out. On his way back to the demonstration at Governmental Plaza, he encountered one of the formerly homeless men that he had helped to get off the street. They chatted. The man offered to help my friend pass out some of his literature. So back they went to the Tea Party to pass out literature. A few minutes later, my friend hears a question uttered to his friend: "Are you being paid to help out here?" My candidate friend turns around to spot a video camera being aimed at the guy helping pass out my friend's literature. The formerly homeless guy helping to pass out literature is a black man. Who is the racist here...or is it just an innocent question?
What was said is that they were called the N word, you are adding in the part about the rising cescendo. The standard of proof was from Breitbart. Breitbart is someone who's own credibility is far more lacking than that of congressman John Lewis. That was true before the unedited ACORN tapes were released and doubly so now. Why does he want video proof? So he can edit them and make it look like something the opposite of what it was? If you choose to believe Breitbart over John Lewis other members of congress, and the DC police that is your choice. Like I said Gergen says "if". That's the point I was making before. You can not be serious. I can't believe anyone who has ever seen the history of civil rights, oppression and discrimination in this country would ever defend literacy tests. It's racist, it's bigoted, and has been a tool and weapon of discrimination. Why don't you go ask your black campaign manager friend what he thinks of literacy tests. Until you learn the history there is no point even discussing this with you. Yes what's wrong is that the way to gain clout for the mission is by getting rid of the racists, not inviting someone to give a racist speech to open your convention, not backing racist candidates, and should those things happen, stepping up to take responsibility for it, and ensure it doesn't happen again. Instead of building clout that way, they attack the messenger. Please see Major's graph. There are more among the tea party. It isn't an equal distribution. In other parties they don't invite racist speakers to open up a their official convention, and they would speak out against any incidents of racism that occurred. The same just isn't true of the tea party. Please don't act like they are all just as bad. That simply isn't the case. I have no idea about the racism there. Whatever happens it doesn't change the facts as I have mentioned. I will just say in closing that I'm honestly dismayed that you would offer up a defense of literacy tests. It's troubling, and shocking, and something I couldn't imagine seeing, after the recent history in this country.
Lewis is a disgraceful hack. He compared John "black baby" McCain to George freaking Wallace. Lewis may trump Breitbart, but the video trumps both of them. <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-SCs6pSE8_I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-SCs6pSE8_I&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uiMFcoTzk2A&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uiMFcoTzk2A&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6fdaPZx1cpU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6fdaPZx1cpU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object> All those media and private cameras can catch the one guy calling Frank a *** but they don't pick up the alleged 15 n-words?
Are you still controlled of something that happened fifty years ago? My kids have to pass literacy tests to get promoted to the next grade level but to expect some basic functionality to be able to have a say in the direction of the country is "troubling and shocking?" That past is now out in the open. In the past, literacy tests were used to oppress. So what? The past is passed. Maybe the abuse should be curtailed rather than the test?
Watching you guys argue with giddy is like watching someone try to play tennis with a guy who thinks he's in an air guitar contest. "Um, could you try to return the volley?" "Wait, wait. Check this. I LOVE this part. weeEEEE-dee-de-dee-dee." "Okay, I'm going to serve." (ball hits air guitarist in forehead) "Ouch! What is your problem! What's with the insults!"
Thinking the worst, being chained to the past, and throwing around irresponsible accusations is a much better way to be. Yeah sure...
I didn't say air guitar was bad. I'm just saying all these threads boil down to people who want to argue with facts and logic versus people who feel very strongly about issues and don't feel any special need (or comfort with) facts and logic. That's okay. Humans are in large part emotional. But yes, I stand by the idea that there are two groups really trying to talk in different languages. EDIT: okay, giddy. Here's an example. Many times in this thread and others people have mentioned that the tea party will bring a very questionable speaker with racist ties and themes to be a key note speaker. I haven't seen anyone who sympathizes with the tea party even try to address this, at all. Comment? (Serves tennis ball gently, in play...)
uh, no it's not... McDonnell to Felons: Write an Essay to Get Rights April 13, 2010 Prisoners in Virginia who want to vote again and have other civil rights restored will have to write to Gov. Bob McDonnell explaining why. A draft proposal by McDonnell's administration would compel felons who want their rights back to tell the governor in writing about their crime, their rehabilitation and how they've contributed to society since doing their time. The American Civil Liberties Union accused the Republican governor Monday of reinstituting the literacy test on convicts, many of them with limited learning. In Virginia, only the governor can restore felons' rights. Legislative efforts to give felons other ways to regain their rights have repeatedly failed.
How do you stop it? I think it is idiotic to promote any racist views personally, but how do you stop one group from doing what that one group wants to do? There is no controlling body amongst the various tea parties. They have even just barely begun to form some kind of coalition-- which WILL BE resisted by the most extreme TPers... so get used to it and don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I'm saddened by the effort hear to smear the entire movement due to the actions of a small minority. Hell, FB wanted to know what my candidate friend was doing to impact the actions of a tea party group several states away while he is INSTEAD trying to run for US Congress in his local district. What the hell?
So you're OK with a politician arbitrarily deciding which essays are "good enough"? You don't think it might open the doors to, say, only approving the people who are likely to vote for your party? It's funny how you're so scared about things you hear in chain emails that aren't real, while you have no concerns with actual doors of abuse.
Forget it giddy. You don't understand. Anyone who thinks literacy tests are OK just doesn't understand. Go ask your black campaign manager friend how he feels about literacy tests. Wanting your child to be literate has nothing to do with a literacy test as a requirement to vote. I can't believe anyone is truly as clueless as you are pretending to be.
