Tayshaun Prince...

Prince is a massive upgrade over battier. People forget that prince has a decent post game in addition to being as good as battier or better at everything else. Depending on matchups he could be a stretch 4 for small doses. While he isn't the all star forward everyone wants, any time a trade comes up that makes your team better, you do it. Besides, what happens if that star becomes available? Then we have T. Prince coming off the bench. That would be epic.

 

tayshaun prince sucks

 

Agreed, guy is still a top defender and can fill up a stat sheet. Rox would become a much better team the moment he stepped on the court. He is what Ariza should have been.

 

you must have read my posts. lol i didnt think anyone would agree with me. we should try to trade for prince and ben wallace

 

Prince is a little above average shooter who does not get to the free throw line. He is not the efficient upgrade we need. He's a good player. But he's not better than Battier. He's a little bit different player. He will take a few more shots than Battier, but he doesn't do enough with those shots to be taking shots away from Martin, Scola, Yao, and Brooks. IF we are going to upgrade at SF, and that player is going to take more shots offensively than Battier, then he has to be more efficient with those shots than the players he is taking shots away from. Prince is less efficient with his offense than the other 4 guys. He may be slightly more efficient than Battier with his offense but it is not enough of an upgrade to justify taking shots away from the other guys. I don't care that he posts up. Battier can post up. What does he do with the shots? His PPP and PPS is not that much better and it does not warrant trading for him. If we trade for Prince and he takes more shots than Battier does, which he most likely would, then he is taking shots away from Martin, Yao, Scola, and Brooks. And that will decrease our offensive efficiency. And if he is going to take the same shots Battier takes, then he is not going to do anything with those shots that Battier isn't already doing. Battier is the better 3 point shooter. Battier is the more efficient scorer. Prince is not an upgrade.

 

I feel many of you are picturing the Tayshaun Prince from 3-4 years ago. In the games I've seen of him the past 1.5 years, he does not seem to be playing as well as before. That could easily be due to lack of good defensive bigs behind him, but something I've noticed.

Also he did miss a good part of last year due to a ruptured disc. Even if he rehabbed properly, those often have lasting consequences such as inflammation, pain, etc.

Though given all that, this is the last year of his contract ($11 million), so as the Rockets are already "going all in" this year, it would not be a huge gamble.

I know lots of people are saying to wait for the a higher caliber player, but it seems to me that few of them want to come to Houston, many GM's are hesistant to trade with Morey now because he has won so many trades to date, and lastly that other GM's do not seem to value the Rocket's players as much as the Rockets do or we think they should.

 

Isn't it a little bit too late to get Prince?

 

Great breakdown of Prince.

http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/topic/18449-tayshaun-prince-elite-defender/

 

great post man. we need more realistic people like you on clutchfans. every ones talking about getting granger and iguodala, but the truth is that we most likely wont be able to get those guys. tayshaun prince is still one of the best defenders in the game. and like you said he has great athleticism and a huge wingspan. combine that with hustle and intensity, and you have a great defender. thats why i think he is an even better defender than battier because of his athleticism. we should really try to trade for prince and ben wallace as well. both excellent defenders. thats why the pistons were able to win that championship because of these two excellent defenders.

 

I don't see the need to upgrade SF. This team looks like it can drop 130 on any given night so having a SF who is the best team defender in the game at that position seems to have a lot of value to me. I guess if we had another defensive minded SF to back up Shane (or vice versa) then we would be better off than having Bud.

I think this is all a moot point as I don't think the Martin/Brooks back court is the one that will finish the season. And I don't think Kevin Martin is going anywhere.

 

I completely disagree with how you and many people view the Rockets offense. It's like you view it as a bunch of one-on-one players who steal shots from each other in proportion. I think the Rockets best chance to be successful is through a team-oriented offense that involves everyone, kind of the like the prolific offense of Adelman's Sacramento Kings.

Doesn't a Princeton/Motion offense require back cuts, slashing to the baskets, and well...movement? I don't see how this type of offense works when your most important slashing position (the 3) barely moves, is nonathletic, and can't finish around the basket.

Prince will get more easy baskets than Shane because he slashes and gets involved. He will also make opposing defenders work on the other end and has the ability to "make plays", which should allow for even more easy shots from the players you are so worried about Prince stealing shots from. The name of the game for a team without a major superstar like the Rockets is "Team Offense" and it's always going to blossom if every player on the court has at the ability to make a play on the offensive end...everything falls into place from there.

If you can get a player like that who can provide that on offense while still being one of the better perimeter defenders in the league, the I don't see how it's not an upgrade.

 

The biggest issue with Tayshaun Prince is his price tag. No, not his 11M expiring contract, but rather the price tag Detroit GM Joe Dumas believes he should carry. The reason Rip and Prince have not been moved is because Dumas hasn't conceded they need to rebuild. To make matters worse, he still believes that both of said players are worth what they were a few years ago. Unless he has soften his stance from last season, the only way to get Prince(or Rip) is to be willing to pay for Tayshaun of 3 years ago, but only getting Tayshaun of today. In my opinion, we are just better off with Battier in this case.

 

i agree. battier has looked horrible. prince should, at some point, be fairly easily obtainable.

that said, for what. Prince is also on the last year of his contract, and i don't see why a straight swap, or even a swap with a likely very low first round pick or second round pick makes sense.

if your the rockets, you certainly don't want to add a potential pick anywhere in the lows 20's or earlier. sure, prince is better than your typical pick 20, but again, Prince is on the last year of his contract, and there's no assurances he will re-up and/or at what price. so unless you really think he is that key piece, it's hard to give up too much in assets for him.

Now, Id offer something like Battier+Taylor+$3 million cash for Prince to Detroit today. They'd get the cash and save throughout the year as they'd be taking back less salary.

Unfortunately, that trade doesn't work - Prince get paid too much. I think it still may not work if you included Ish - who apparently can't be traded until mid December anyway.

I don't see why you'd included Chuck in any trade. I think when Yao isn't playing he gets way too much PT, but hard to see him traded in this type of deal.

Prince would be a nice add, at the right price, if Morey could figure out a trade that worked.

 

brooks pissed me off in the game vs the warriors, when the warriors kept lighting it up, at times you can see the frustration in brooks when he would run down the court and jack up a 3. Its fine if he does that but when martin is on fire give him the ball, dont jack a 3 up and then play no D. Battier got lit up he cant play D like he use too anymore, T-Prince would be an awesome fit for this crew, but it needs to ge done quick!!!

 

I think it's a bit unfair to point the team's struggles on Battier alone. We are deficient in defense but it's not Battier that's the issue and Tayshaun is not the solution. Upgrade or not.

Our team is struggling on the defensive side as a whole. Even if we were to put Rodman in his prime in the Rocks now, we'd still be exposed as a weak defensive team simply because he can't be everywhere at the same time and not every situation is an iso defensive situation. We just look lost out there on the defensive end. The backcourt being the most suspect.

For all the clamor for us to get defensive personell, our most immediate concern is to get the team cohesive as a unit on the defensive side and find someone to be a closer in tight games. No 1 person would be the solution for that defensively even Tayshaun. Anyone watching the initial 2 games can point out almost anyone as a defensive liability. If you were to persue the line of thinking that Battier is the issue as being a defensive liability to it's logical conclusion, you'd have to hate on most our guys.

I'm a fan of Tayshaun as well and feel that a change of scenery from his former championship team, that is all but a shell of it's former glory, could prove to be a rejuvination of his career but, i am a bit leery of just how bad his ruptured disc is and his 10.3M price tag for the season as mentioned by a previous poster.

 

This is what happens when you dont understand or watch basketball and try to use metrics. Its like after the ellis explosion and morey says he's not that good of a shooter. Ellis is a 47% shooter, but his ts is 510. If a jump shooter is shooting almost 50% from the field, he's a good shooter.

 

In ONE game he might shoot well, but in the next he sucks... that's called being a streaky shooter not a good shooter.

 

Prince isn't a sure upgrade at this point in his career. For one, he's 30, which i usually don't think is too old yet, but the majority around here seem to view that as being 60 yrs old, so i'm not sure why it's acceptable in this case. If we'd only have battier then i'd get it, since battier is slightly older, so we'd gain about a year or two back at our startinf SF spot...but we already have Budinger waiting on the bench. He'll be ready to take cover possibly by the end of the season, but i think next season is more likely...either way, why hold him back by acquiring a SF who's also declining himself?