Like stand over here (3 point line), then stand over here (3 point line), or stand over here (3 point line)? That? What about ISO Pippen here, ISO Pippen there? sound familiar? Typical Rudy-ball! What you call, "REPEATEDLY changed the offense" under Rudy was in really not changing at all. Face it. Rudy couldn't design an sophisticated offense if you paid him! He just didn't have it in his brain! Why can't you understand that? Pippen was a running/slashing SF. He wasn't a 3 point shooter. Since Rudy offenses wasn't predicated off of a passing/slashing offense, there's no way that he was going to find success under Rudy's game plan. And no one is claiming that Pippen was a franchise savior (regarding your "he was nothing w/o Jordan" remark). Could it be that's the reason that the team of Phil, Jordan and Pippen worked so well. They actually knew what they were doing in terms of exploiting each others strengths. Only 1-2 more win(s)? Really?
They didn't fire up the Dream because he was an enigma for most of career; language barrier, foreigner, accent, and played on pure raw athleticism early in his career. Then, when he won his first championship, he lead the way with a bunch of role players. How painful was it to watch? Very! Solidified by defense... What type of offense? Dump it in, kick it out. Over and over and over and over... Now, you can say, "Hey, it worked, we won a championship" all you want. But you can't force people to enjoy that style of basketball. So, the media not "firing" up the Dream had nothing to do with it. You can't "fireup" what's not there. That's what they tried to do with Kidd/Martin duo last year.
I can show you the tape with the different sets. It is Pippen who refused to use his skills. Both Olajuwon and Barkley said they went out of their way to accomodate Pippen. He was supposed to replace Drexler in the Rockets' offense. That never happened. Besides, what about Portland? Pippen was even more milquetoast and disappointing offensively there. He was a top 50 player, and the "star" when Jordan was gone. The expectations were that he would continue at the level of "possibly the second best player in the league" when he left Chicago. Ask anyone who knows the Blazers. He has been a big disappointment there. 38 +/- 5 is my prediction for this season. Best case they equal last year or maybe do slightly (yes, 1-2 games) better. Worst case they go completely into the tank, and everyone except YM and SF are gone after next season.
Here's my take on Pippen/Portland issue. True, Jordan made his teammates better. But so did Phil Jackson and Pippen. All three of the complemented each other. So, take away those three, and you have to start fresh. So, the illusion that Pippen was the "2nd best player in the league" was clouded by those facts above. Partly true, partly false (similar to James Worthy, with Magic and Kareem). Next, was his tenure in the league. His 12th year he joined the Rox. Again, the Rudy/Barkely/Hakeem merger with Pippen didn't work. Barkley and Hakeem basically ran the same plays (ISO post). Pippen wasn't a Jordan/Drexler type ISO player. He was a SF that liked to cut off of ball movement. We did not play that way.We played the ISO post game (below the rim game at the time; old aging knees). We ran plays in which Barkley/Hakeem would just kick the ball out to a waiting Pippen. Thus, his game suffered. Portland was more about lack of minutes, and age. He took a back seat to the younger players. Also, the fans in Portland are suffering from the same delusions of grander that the Rox thought. They look back on the glory days of the Bulls and think, "Hey, why can't Pippen play the same way?" Hello! Different team! Different plays, older player, no Phil. No Jordan. Lots of reasons. But that's no reason to deride his game. Look at the big picture. He's been a 10 ppg player ever since. So, don't blame him for not getting 20 ppg at the in his 17th year. If I recall, Barkley and Hakeem started waning in their games around the same time (nagging injuries and sub-par numbers). 1999 was the only full season that Pippen has played since being with Portland.
I don't know what you consider "Sets", if you think Rudy was running different "sets" the whole year, or any other year. He ran different players into different positions within the SAME set the whole year and every year. He had Hakeem and Barkley playing with their back to the basket alone ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE FLOOR every ****ing time. That was the most amazing part, they set up on the same side of the floor every time down the court. Sometimes, he would even put Pippen into the low ISO position with his back to the basket. He's never played with his back to the basket his entire career, and yes he did with the Rockets, when he wasn't "spotting up" on the three point line. He didn't even run a pick and roll with Barkley and Pippen which would have been deadly. He had Cuttino playing point guard and shooting the last shot of the game in the most crucial playoff game that year. Where was Barkley when Olajuwon or Pippen were in the low post? He was on the ****ing 3 point line. Barkley has never taken more three pointers in his career. This was another waste of talent because every time the ball was on the low left block, Barkley was never in position to rebound. I'm not just talking about that brief stint with Pippen either. I am just using that one year with Pippen as an example of the same issues running throughout his career. I think Pippen is a ****, and was consistently overrated, BUT, he was never a spot up shooter, nor a back to the basket post-player, and that is how he was played while getting paid over 12 million a year. He could have been used much better. As could have Shandon Anderson. For some reason, he thought Shandon Anderson was a spot up three point shooter and a back to the basket player, he did neither of these in Utah, and was great for cutting to the basket. Even if you somehow claim he ran different "sets", I challenge you to find one that involved someone moving without the ball or cutting to the basket, or just working for an open perimeter shot without someone on them.
exactly allen, Rudy never seemed to have a clue as to what he was doing out there. His coaching philosophy was terrible and it was reflected by the players on the court. He can't develop players, nor does he have the ability to draft well. His offensive strategy is just plain awful. There was a few give and go plays that involved Yao, but other teams eventually caught on. There were too many iso plays and almost no pick and rolls. No weak side screens off the ball and absolutly NO, and I repeat NO, ball movement. If teams would have studied the tapes they probably would've stopped Francis's game winner at the top of the three point arc. They ran this exact same play four times, going 2-2 in shots made and shots missed. The final two he missed due to the other teams knowing the play. This is one example that shows Rudy's poor creativity and lack of coaching skill. Everyone always talks about the two rings in 93-95, but the fact remains that an idiot could have won then and an idiot did. The Rockets were already an established team before Rudy T, and the fact that Jordan wasn't playing further contributed to the Rockets success. Rudy was no genius, he was just an interim coach that wore out his welcome.
To name a few that are not "Yao Ming" or "Steve Francis"... Sam Cassell Robert Horry Othella Harrington Michael Dickerson Cuttino Mobley ...all of whom are still quality NBA players drafted lower in the first round or the second round, and developed by the Rockets. SHOW ME THE 'ISOS!' They simply did not play the "clear out the floor" isolation game last year. They did that ONLY when it worked. You want the ball in the hands of the guys who are more likely to perform. RT's offense has always centered on percentages, and getting the ball to players where and when the guy is most likely to score. Period. I am SICK of that "ISO" lie. Why repeat the "three pointer at the end of the game?" Simple. It WORKED. Francis made two, was WIDE OPEN on the third (and missed). Only one time did a defender even get a hand in his face. I'll take those odds. As far as "pick and rolls," or "pick and pops," those were plentiful enough last season. Ultimately it wasn't a high-enough percentage play for the Rockets. One who had one of the best winning percentages in the league for SEVEN seasons. That from an organization that had gone 41-41 and was 26-26 when the previous head coach was replaced.
These so-called "quality" players you named...where are they now? And how can you say the Rockets developed them. Sam Cassell played just three of his 10 seasons and counting in a Rockets uniform. In those three seasons he started just 7 games while averaging just slightly over 10 ppg in each contest over those three years. I would hardly say "THEN" interim coach Rudy T drafted or developed Sam into the player that he is now. Sam was in his NBA infancy and was a product of the surrounding players while with the Rockets. Advantage - egn Robert Horry was drafted the year before the Rockets made Rudy the head coach. Horry was key to the success of the Rockets championship run and has done what he has always done. Shoot threes. I would say that Robert Horry is your one dimensional, average role player. As far as developing him, I don't know how you develop a player that does nothing but shoot threes. Maybe he was a multi-faceted player that they developed into just a three point specialist. Because he hit some clutch shots.... Advantage edc Harrington's name should not even be on this list. 14 starts in just 3 years averaging 6.86 per contest during his Rockets tenure. Development, I think not!!! We developed him into what? The career backup forward that averages 8.5 ppg 5.2 rpg and 1.54 TO in just 22 mpg. This includes a season which he started all 82 games for Vancouver. Advantage egn. PERIOD! Dickerson played one season with the Rockets. ONE!! His career has been injury riddin and his development as a player has had nothing to do with the Rockets. Enough said. Cat, I will give you. I do like Cuttino but his style of play is conformed to Rudy ball. Cat is a one on one, iso type of player. His slash to the basket guard play is now obsolete with Yao Ming. Hence all the talk of Cat being on the market. (I believe said by CD himself)
I really don't want to get into it, but there are roughly 400 NBA players. Go through and see which organizations have more of their draft picks/1st/2nd year players still in the league - especially ones that were low first/second rounders that are more than end of the bench types.
EDC: I wonder what kind of games you were watching? I watched most of the games that year and I don't recall any other Rocket player ever set a pick for Pippen. Not once. I'm interested to know in detail what kind of plays you are talking about. All Pip used to do was to throw the ball to Hakeem or Barkley, make a baseline cut, stand beyond the arc and scracth his butt, or having the ball in his hands going one on one. I have no idea of what you claim about "repeatedly changed offense". If you mean by a few plays here and there that involved Pippen, yeah I'll give you that. Still, I expect for you to look for them hard as they are few, far and between. That's not what I call repeatedly changed offense. Pippen was so frustrated with the Rockets offense that he demanded a trade. As to Portland, they didn't expect Pippen to put up big numbers there. Pippen was needed for his veteran presence. They had numerous scoring threats at multiple positions, as I would expect you to know.
Bryce Drew at 16 Jason Collier at 15 Roderick Rhodes at 22 (?) Mircad Turkscan at 18 some of Rudy's picks. I don't think the Rockets do better than anyone else at having players not drafted in the top ten who stick around.
WOW! Sub in Yao for "Hakeem or Barkley" and make it anyone of our guards instead of Pippen and now you will have EXACTLY what we had this past season. Rudy was a terrible coach. Plain and simple.
"SHOW ME THE 'ISOS!' They simply did not play the "clear out the floor" isolation game last year." If anyone has to show you the ISOS in the Rockets offense, you can't be helped. That statement is downright ignorant. "RT's offense has always centered on percentages, and getting the ball to players where and when the guy is most likely to score. Period. I am SICK of that "ISO" lie. " You can't have percentages on anything else if you don't have any other plays. Your only percentages rely on players within the ISO, not different offensive sets. Also, your logic is convoluted. Just because you rely on percentages doesn't mean you're not running an ISO offense. Not deductively valid.
Maybe, Maybe not. The Rockets did get the ball to their highest percentage guys, and sometimes they succeeded playing one-on-one. That is the same thing the Sixers do with Iverson. That is not clear out the floor "ISOLATION BASKETBALL." In the 2002-2003 season, they used the isolation set *less frequently* than most of the other teams in the NBA. I repeat, "SHOW ME THE ISOS."
no it's not ignorant. You just have a problem understand what an ISO is. I get so tired of this "lie" too. Utah ran a pick n roll as a living. If people think there was a lot of movement on the weakside before the PnR made the defense react...they are just ignorant of Utah's offense. Same with the Rocket's PnR....hey just because Francis isn't Stockton and Griffin isn't Malone, doesn't mean that play isn't drawn up the same. Also, Rudy invented a very effective answer to the fronting of Yao, last year. He responded with a fact PnR, with Yao just pushing his man down the lane. That play single-handedly won a couple games last year before the NBA reacted to it. Unfortunately, Francis was unable to respond to the NBA responses, because it took more involve options to make a response. ...and so it goes. Francis is always one game behind the what the NBA is doing to stop him.
Passing the ball off the double teams to find the open man will lead to high percentage shots. The Rockets did very little of this with "Rudy ball". Also, Eddie Griffin behind the arc is not what I would call "high percentage".
Well I have to start to disagree with you here HeyPee. I like your analysis of the few games where Rudy started to utilize Yao but, yes the league reacted and Rudy did not react to the reaction. I always liked Rudy's utilization of Hakeem and his perimeter support back in the day but Rudy is not the best coach for the current talent of the Rockets. It is also not Steve Francis's job to formulate a game plan to deal with teams' strategies to stop him. That is the coaching staff's job. What I will not listen to though are the haters on this board bashing a coach who obviously had enough talent to win two championships at the highest level. Rudy has a coaching style that fit those teams, his style does not fit this one. I think even he recognized that and gracefully conceded. It is childish to make a statement like "Rudy is a terrible coach". Rudy is a great coach for certain styles. JVG is a great coach for certain styles, that is why we got him. Every coach and player has a style and it is important to match styles.
I thought about refuting each point you made, which I could do rather easily, but rather than waste my time doing so, I think the phrase, "You are a complete idiot" applies here. Not to Rudy T, but to you. Loser.
Although I also disagree with egn, and might even think he is a complete idiot, I just feel someone should tell you that one thing about this board is we don't like people just calling other people idiots, aka "flaming". If you disagree, what you should do, is exactly what first occured to you and refute each of his points. Not only might you make him think about his remarks, but you will let those reading these posts have some of your perspective on the topic instead of just raw emotion.
