Taking Yao out for defensive purpose at the end of the games

Well, that was due to the presence of Shaq,Yao had to be there to guard Shaq, otherwise, he would get the ball and scored, it was still a risk play in which Nash could hit three.

 

this is a d@mned if you do or d@mned if you don't type of substitution...

Usually, when the team takes Yao out at the end of the game (especially against small ball teams and , because of the PnR...which is not good at it. Thing is, as a result, you get what happened last night, Curtis Jackson Jr. was taking it straight to the hole. Good thing that could happen to us, before the playoffs. Any decent guard who can get to the basket will do something exactly, like that in the playoffs.


So pick your poison.

 

if yao is in at the end of games the opposing team will run PnR against him where yao lets either the guard of the screener blow past him for a layup. if you have watched yao's career, you would know this to be true. deke would not stand a better chance against the PnR because he's not faster than yao.

hayes is the designated PnR defender. it forces the opponent to come up with another way to beating the rockets. that may leave them without a shot blocker on the court, but given the roster they are working with, its the best they've got.

 

If Hayes doesnt jump out too far, the switch works and the Pistons dont get a layup. Perhaps they can get the ball down to whoever switched to Hayes' man for a post up, but when you are running out of time thats not usually an on the fly quick option.


Doesnt happen very often, but Hayes messed up on that play. He does that about as often as Mo Williams misses free throws.

 

When I get time, I'll look it up more closely and see how often we give up layups without Yao at the end of close games.

As for that Suns game, that defensive possession with Yao in the game was actually a mistake/miscommunication on our part. Nash got a great look at a three, one he routinely makes, and the Rockets were very fortunate that the ball didn't go in. Battier said after the game that he didn't even realize Yao was on the floor. Adelman apparently changed his mind at the last moment and put him back in.

This is what he said after that game:

[rquoter](on the final defensive possession): I probably made a mistake there. We were talking about going small to try and switch everything. The only problem with that is then you have to put a smaller guy on Shaq, he rolls to the basket, and we’d tried to foul him a couple times and he finished everything.

Yao did get up on that last shot and got a hand up, but we probably should have taken him out and switched all the pick-and-rolls. But we were only up two, so it makes it tough because if he gets going against somebody else besides a guard, he’s going to get to the basket and maybe find a three-point shot. You pick your poison. And fortunately, we got fortunate at the end and he missed the shot.[/rquoter]

And what Shane said:

[rquoter](final defensive possession): I was thrown for a loop. The original play was to sub Von in for Yao. Ron was going to guard Shaq because we knew it was going to be a Shaq-Nash pick-and-roll, and our plan was going to be to switch the pick-and-roll. As soon as I get hit by Shaq, I switched and, to my surprise, I saw Yao – I didn’t know Coach had subbed Yao back in the game. At that point I probably said something you can’t print and as I watched the ball in the air… Luckily Yao got his hand up and Nash missed a great look – and he doesn’t miss many of those. It’s not a shot I want to give him anytime soon.[/rquoter]

 

That's exactly what I thought after that game. People have said Yao forced him to miss that shot. Yao got up, sure, but Nash will make that exact shot with Yao in his face 50% of the time. In fact the previous possession when Nash hit that other 3 that bounced high off the rim was almost the exact same thing. Yao closed and got a hand up but Nash hit it. We got lucky at the end.

They're gonna run a PnR with Yao's guy every time and he's terrible at guarding it. That's why they switch.

Anotehr time I rmember this situation though was the first Indiana game. I don't know what happened, but Granger drove baseline and pretty much ahd an open lay up. That ended up being the game winning shot. Although I think that's more of a defensive break down than it being because Chuck was there.

It's a gamble either way.

 

Yao had 4 fouls that is why he was pulled out

 

I have always said this is the single most DUMBEST move by Rick Adelman and he continue doing this same shyt every freaking game especially when the Rockets are up by a slight margin and time running out.

If you analyze all the close games where he took Yao out and you will see how much he hurt the Rockets. By taking Yao out, you basically are giving the other teams a FREE 2 pts...and possibly coming back to tie. Why the **** he keeps doing that is beyond me. Oh because Yao might not be able to defend the pick n roll and someone might shoot a ****ing 3 over him...so WHAT!! Do you think it's that ****ing easy to make a 3?? And most teams ARE NOT looking to shoot the ****ing 3 anyway because there are plenty of time left, they're more looking to attack the rim to try to score easy basket. But who the **** in this league defend the rim better than Yao with his size?? Seriously....think of one person in this league that can alter and basically eliminate anyone who comes close to the basket.

So i am just ****ing sick this coach continue doing that same shyt hurting this team down the stretch by taking Yao out and seeing other teams attacking and scoring. Especially in the Chicago game...that's one reason we lost that game. Someone needs to tell him to stop doing this shyt.

 

Dwight Howard.

Yao get's beat at the rim a lot too by guards. You also don't want to give wide open 3pt or jumpshot looks. If it's in the hand of a good shooter that's just as like likely to be successful as a guard getting by his man to the basket.

 

Fortunately, we have the means to do that because the play by plays are publicly available. I do think its funny how confident you are in your opinion. I'm sure you realize that this strategy has been used by both Rick Adelman and Jeff Van Gundy, both of whom had far more data and analysis and professional experience at their disposal to inform their decisions than you do.

I can think of three specific games last season where Chuck was subbed in for Yao in the last possession, and he helped get us the stop.

@ORL 1/4/08 (switched onto Rashard Lewis on the last possession)
@SEA 1/23/08 (switched onto Kevin Durant on the last possession)
SAC 2/13/08 (defended Ron Artest on the last possession, and denied him the ball)

...

I suppose them outscoring us by 15 points in the 4th quarter while Yao was on the floor would be another reason we lost that game. Chicago was killing us in the paint both with and without Yao. Yao was on the floor from 4:15 to 0:39. These were our defensive possessions:

1. Rose hits 11-foot jump shot.
2. Rose hits 9-foot jump shot (off turnover)
3. Gordon draws 2-shot foul from Battier
4. Rose makes driving layup plus foul
5. Gordon makes driving layup (off turnover)
6. Gordon hits 18-footer

That's 6 possessions in a row in which the Bulls scored with Yao not on the bench. He was taken out with the game tied 102-102 with under a minute left, and Rose scores again (Hayes wasn't used btw ... which I thought was the real mistake).

And what you remember from that game is Adelman is a dumbass for removing Yao from the game and allowing the Bulls to score. Hmmm.

 

Stuckey channeled Dwyane Wade on that play. He was getting to the rim no matter who was out there. If Yao was in instead of Chuck you can be sure Stuckey still would have scored the bucket and as some people have already mentioned, earned himself a free throw too.

 

Yes he is. Measured the way most players are here (instead of overseas), Luis is easily 6'10".

 

Haven't read through the entire thread but as a basketball coach myself we almost always have our best moving big men in for defense at the end of the game. It comes down to defense being played by your body position rather than the length of your arms or quickness of your hands.

Chuck overplayed and messed up last night, doesn't seem to happen very often. Unless they start posting him up with a big man (one of the few situations where height and arm length are a clear advantage) I think Rick's doing the right thing in leaving him out there.

 

No he doesn't. Yao stuffed that m****er down the stretch when he drove and try to do a layup.

 

Well...ok so Rose scored...so what...why take Yao out when the game tied?? I believe it's rare to score inside with Yao's presence inside. Do not take Yao out!!!!!!!! I rather have Rose taking jump shot than getting easy layup 2 with Chuck inside not able to block.

 

I think taking Yao out for defensive purpose is a 50-50 thing. If they need a 3, for sure you need quicker defenders to guard the perimeter and/ or a PnR. If we are up by 2 or less, I think you want Yao in to guard the basket unless Deke is available.

One more thing you have to pay attention to is if we have timeout to call to put Yao in for our offensive possession. There were a time or 2 when we got the ball back and wasted a scoring chance with Chuck in the lineup. We'd also want Yao in for Deke as well when we have the ball.

 

Unless the other team HAS to shoot a three, I wouldn't do it. When they take Yao out and the other team can settle for a 2, the first thing they do is have a guard penetrate and drive to the hole because: a) our guards are pathetic at stoping penetration and b) we have no other shot blocking threat. I will settle for Yao's defeciency on PnRn for having a legit shot blocking threat. Not ot mention, it's nice to have him on the floor when they are sending people to the line.

 

What that sub further shows is what I've talked about for awhile. Posters don't like what I say until they understand and really look. I said we needed slashers, posters said we need spot up shooters. Now those same people say we need slashers. I said this team needs a turiaf/anderson type of 4/5 and these same people say we're alright we scolandry and chuck. Guess what, not those same people are wondering why in defensive possessions we have no one at the 4/5 that can challenge at the rim and is quick enough to slide their feet. The rox have no versitility on their team. They can't put multiple, versitile lineups on the floor even when healthy. The have the same type of centers and the same type of 4's. Neither in the same position can play together effectively. Yao can't play with deke, scola can't play with landry. That's why coach has to sub yao out for a 6'4 ground hugger like hayes. That's why I've maintained that you have to balance your roster. Scolandry and Hayes make no sense from a basketball basis because neither can make up for what yao can't do. Both struggle with the same players. So people will put up the 21-12 or so, but that's pretty what they give up also if not more not to mention they're both poor defenders and shot blockers.