If Texas or California wanted to be independent countries, you would have no problem either? If a man wishes to be a criminal, you'll gladly support him with firearms and getaway cars because you respect his wishes? Oh and you should probably stop viewing the world through American lenses. Thanks for sharing, we've all been moved to tears by your touching tale. How very polite of you. So you admitted to have never visited the mainland yet here you are being rude towards over a billion people. People who have dreams and loved ones just like you. People who have burdens and responsibilities just...well I doubt you have any. People who have nothing to do with your warped view of an entire nation. Seems to me you haven't grown up one bit since you left Hong Kong
If Puerto Rico wanted to be an independent country, I wouldn't care. Taiwan was never a part of the PRC. It is the ROC. Different government.
The situation is more complicated than that. The ROC government still claims to be the legitimate government of all of China and it wasn't that long ago that they still sat KMT legislators who represented provinces in the mainland. The situation current situation would be analogous to if the Britian dumped the Monarchy and the Royal Family fled to the Isle of Man and continued to claim rule over the UK. As I said before I don't see a problem with Taiwan becoming independent, provided they drop the name ROC or "China Taipei", as Azadre noted the KMT government was never part of the PRC. China yes but not the PRC and that is an important political distinction. They have existed as defacto separate countries for 63 years now and seem to be doing OK. I still though think the tide of history is for reunification but I don't see any rush or reason for either side to really push the pace and I suspect cooler heads on both sides probably feel that way too. What we are seeing though is occasional sabre rattling by both sides to keep up the rhetoric for what I believe is largely their own domestic needs. While the PRC might talk about forceable reunification I doubt they would do that as an invasion would be very costly in terms of resources and lives and leave Taiwan and a lot of Southern China in shambles. At the sametime the ROC knows there is no realistic way they could ever press their claims on the whole of China and would inevitably lose a military campaign against the PRC. I don't think either side seriously wants a military confrontation but they will bang that drum every now and then to rally nationalism.
It has always been that way btw, Han Chinese views on race and nationalism are no less creepy than those of North Korea's. Add to the mix an inferiority complex that is centuries in the making, and you have an uber-nationalist government known for its erratic and threatening rhetoric just itching at the chance to dominate its smaller neighbor. I am surprised Taiwan is not doing more for its own defense. Buying helicopters and defense missiles is hardly sufficient, not when your neighbor is calling you a 'renegade' province and threatening to force you back into the fold.
LOL! Not nearly the same thing, but nice try :grin: I guess you just exposed yourself as a PRC apologist. Take off those PRC lenses of yours and then try again
While I frequently argue with the pro-PRC posters I can understand where their nationalism comes from. Chinese history for most the last 150 years has been one of humiliation, occupation, outright rape and other attrocities comitted at the hands of foreigners. This to a country whose name means "The Central Kingdom" and looked upon every other nation beyond its borders as barbarians. The last two centuries have been a shock to Chinese dignity and their self conception. Now that China is on the ascendency towards superpower status the Chinese are feeling that they are reclaiming their dignity but at the sametime the memory of foriegn humiliation is fresh in the mind of many Chinese. Another factor in this is the PRC's deliberate strategy to stoke up nationalism among the Chinese. I noted this in the most recent Tiananmen thread but nationalistic push is essential to maintaining the PRC maintaining control by convincing average Chinese of the need to continue to work towards the collective success of the country and also tamping criticism. Consider this in light of Reagan saying "Its morning in America again" or even in the use of patriotism in the last decade to tamp down criticism of the previous Admin.. So while I feel it gets taken too far by many Chinese it makes sense to me that Chinese feel more nationalistic overall.
Which "smaller neighbor" did the Chinese government ever attempt to "dominate"? Iraq, Afghanistan, or Yugoslavia? Taiwan is a left over problem from the Chinese civil war in 1940s, when ROC fleed from mainland China and Americans stepped in. The founder of ROC Sun was a Han Chinese himself. Even the US agrees Taiwan is not to become an intependent country. Taiwan to the US is not something to "help" or "protect", but a tool to threat mainland China. Missles are sold to Taiwan so that they can be fired against mainland China some day.
Yeah, because our huge military successes in Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan have gotten us frisky for world domination. It's all propaganda dude. Saber rattling maintains order and stifles dissent. Establishing the 'US' in us vs. them gives a sense of nationality. The only threat to China is when the people demand the right to vote, assemble criticize and organize; the chaos of freedom.
As rocketsjudoka has already said, it isn't the same thing, but not in the way you want it to be (they aren't just claiming independence, they are claiming rule over the mainland): If the Alaskan Independence Party won elections and proclaimed independence, would you be support their independence? (Or if it makes it more palatable, if hypothetically, the Alaskan Independence Party won elections and claimed rule over the lower 48 as representatives of Real America, would you be championing their right to buy arms from Russia?) If you think the situations cannot be compared please explain why the difference in situations makes them incomparable. (I realize the situations aren't exactly the same, Taiwan's history is more complex than this, but I don't think the differences make the main concept behind the scenarios incomparable - a part of a country claiming independence, and their right to arm themselves.)
So if the KMT/ROC won the civil war, and it was the Communists that escaped to Taiwan declaring independence, it would be comparable? (Assuming you are against Alaskan independence) you would be against that version of Taiwan claiming independence, but not the current version?
It'd be suicidal for Taiwan for them to fire even one missile. What makes you think Taiwan will use them offensively? Please spell it out for me.
The ones you witness here are always among the most patriotic. They bothered to take the time to defend China on a Foreign BASKETBALL BBS. Judging from the threads in the D&D, the absurd amount of stupidity from the right wing extremist is also getting creepy in its consistency. (Really, all scientists are serving a dark super lord to promote global warming for his benefit, and Obama is a socialist racist Muslim anti-Christ that is about to destroy the USA and the rest of the world) I'll throw in my two cents. There is a difference in the meaning and definition of "country" in China compared to the west. "Government" and "country" are two different things in the Chinese culture. In China throughout the history, dynasties rise and fall, the land separated and then united. In Chinese culture the term "China" means not the governments or the kings or the warlords that are currently in power, but rather the land itself, and the people that has been merged together by the culture and language. In this sense, Taiwan has always been part of China, for maybe the last thousands of years or so, and still is part of China although not under the control of the mainland. PRC have never ruled over Taiwan, but PRC is not China, it's just the current Chinese government. In many periods during the Chinese history, the land was separated into different kingdoms ruled by different government, but they are all China, and they think they are all China. The current situation is no different. Not only do mainlanders think Taiwan is part of China, a lot of Taiwanese think they are part of China too (Not part of PRC, but part of China, especially in the older generations, although in the younger generations there tend to be more towards independent). I think this is the reason most westerners don't understand why the PRC are being so aggressive on the "one China" agenda. In the western view if a region is under the control of a sovereign government, it is a country, which is what Taiwan has been for the last 60 years. And when you clash these two points of view, one side just cannot understand what the other side is thinking. For Chinese, the westerners are trying to take away something they have had for thousands of years just like what happened in the late 19th and early 20th century, and for westerners the evil communists is trying to extend their power over their sovereign neighbors, while in fact neither side is trying to do what the other side thought they are doing. The best solution is to let everything stay the way they are, and hopefully as time goes on something can be negotiated to put a peaceful end to this situation.
Exactly. Not one single Chinese (including those who live in Taiwan) wants to see a war between the mainland and the island. The problem is to be solved peacefully.
Ya I know, western world always believe every country in the world need to follow their way of doing things in order to suvive. It's all propaganda dude.
I can understand the Taiwanese government buying missiles for stoking nationalism and political clout, but when you claim "Missles are sold to Taiwan so that they can be fired against mainland China some day", it sounds like you think they have a deeper agenda.
Just a few years back factions of Taiwan independence crowd threatened to strike Mainland China's urban population or high-value targets, such as the Three Gorges Dam, according to a US Defense Department report. Sounds like you need to be more informed.
