Don't hate it so easily, science boy. What's your source for Mao and Zhou sucking it up to Nixon? I am interested to see what exactly the behind deal was about.
IMO Taiwan is a country. If you think differently, that's fine, I'm not gonna argue you with that. I am curious though as to why you "China" people (if you are) feel the need to have dominance over Taiwan. China obviously doesn't need Taiwan and Taiwan has proven over time that it doesn't need China. While I am sure there are still a lot of people who don't recognize Taiwan as a country, it is important to note that we have our own president, currency, military, and territory. Most importantly however, Taiwan can support itself economically. I honestly think that if Taiwan was a bit bigger (land size), more people would have less of a hard time accepting the idea that it is indeed it's own country. But because it is such a small island, people (cough China) don't think it deserves it's own identity and have this notion that it can just be easily bullied around. Sorry to burst your bubble.
National Security Archives at GWU. Feel free to read the official transcripts of meetings. And it isn't clear to me why you think I'm hating. You are the one with the uncomfortable degrading angry sexual metaphors.
I really dont understand why the Chinese would be so pissed off like this UNLESS they did, indeed, have special plans for the Taiwanese in mind? I honestly think their response and the response of some Chinese posters here PROVES that Taiwan is doing the right thing in interest of its own defense. The notion that a small nation like Taiwan cannot deter a mainland attack is just silly. I refer you to the history books, where "tiny" nations were able to colonize and dominate much larger ones for decades, even centuries. In more recent times, a tiny state called Israel has successfully deterred numerous incursions on its sovereignty by much larger neighbors. Size is not an insurmountable deficit that cannot be overcome. It can be remedied through the acquisition of superior technology and a sufficient deterrent to an attack, both in terms of improving defensive and offensive capabilities. If even a tiny nation such as Taiwan can successfully demonstrate an offensive ability that would devastate the mainland in case of any attempt to forcibly bring Taiwan into the mainland's fold, then Taiwan will have secured itself. The mere fact that the CCP government is reacting this way to an arms sale deal PROVES that the Chinese themselves acknowledge that Taiwan may be slipping away.
Dont worry, the Arabs were also at one time in enamored with their size advantage, and also in denial for many many years about Israel being a "state" in their midst. In the end, cold hard reality hits you in the fact (or ass rapes you, depending on your preference). All Taiwan has to do is keep demonstrating their abilities and their intentions of guarding the homeland against Chinese belligerence. My only advice to you is this: do NOT be fooled by Chinese sweet talk about how we are the same people and how we can have amicable relations if only Taiwan lets down its guard and its rhetoric. All that is designed to do is get the Taiwanese to let their guard down, and then BAM the Chinese will pounce on your asses. Taiwan needs to build up its offensive capabilities, and so does Japan as well. In the long run, I think it is actually in US interests to have those countries do more of the heavylifting and providing for their own defenses, with the USA fading to the background and only as a safeguard.
Not that I support the military deal or CCP taking over Taiwan, but I believe you have messed up "Country" with "Nation" here. China is a country, Taiwan is a country, heck even Hong Kong, Tibet can be regarded as countries too. So do Scotland and Wales, British would not mind people living there calling the 2 places countries.
KMT mao/PRC they were all pretty bad. They have this park in taiwan were they have all the KMT statues. KMT used to be a big hero there and there used to be many statues of him, and a big hall, but many people realized he was not that great of a guy and they put all the statues in a park near his cabin. It was kind of cool seeing it. I guess that is kind of the difference between taiwan and china. In china they still celebrate mao whereas in taiwan they are a little more to calling a spade a spade.
From the average Chinese's point of view, Taiwan is part of China and the Taiwan issue is a left-over from the Chinese civil war that must be resolved one day, by force if necessary and the reunification of Taiwan with mainland China will mark the resurrection of the united and strong Chinese nation after hundreds of years of humiliation from foreign invasions and colonisations. From the average Taiwanese's point of view, Taiwan is an independent and fully democratic state that has never been a part of the PRC and has been constantly oppressed by its giant neighbor in all arenas and the Taiwanese people, rather than the Chinese or the American of any foreign powers, should democratically determine the island's political future, which certainly will not involve the CCP. From the average American's point of view, Taiwan is Taiwan and China is China and the evil ChiComms are trying to take over a democratic and peace-loving small island by force, much like what King George once tried to do to the colonies and it is important to curb China's ever-growing capabilities which can not be trusted and must be guarded against. I think I've summed up the opinions expressed in this thread. IMO the balance and peace across the Taiwan strait is important to the world. The longer the status quo lasts, the better it is for both sides of the strait because future generations of both China and Taiwan will be more capable of resolving the Taiwan issue peacefully than the current ones, especially for the Chinese side. On the other side, with the dwindling capability of the manufacturing industry and the ever-growing national debt of the U.S., it is important to keep the military indstrial complext alive and growing. The U.S. military presence around the world for the last half of a century has generally proven to be a positive for the world peace and stability compared to the superpowers of the past history, despite of the blemishes that happen from time to time. Hence I conclude that the Taiwan arms sale is indeed a good thing, despite of the short term negatives it may do to the U.S.-China relationship.
As one can tell from this postage stamp issued during the Cultural Revolution, the "Whole Country is Red" stamp - Taiwan is clearly not part of China, insofar the island of Formosa is colored in white, not red. This stunning admission is the basis for Taiwan's independence.
Nail, meet head. Debating China & Taiwan can lead to infinite discussions that go nowhere. But the bottom line is that time is on our side. While Taiwan integrates more with China as China integrates more with the world, it becomes less likely bad things will happen.
I still remember when I was still a student, when Hong Kong was still one of UK's colonies, we called Hong Kong our country. We were taught the term 'country' not necessarily a place of independent sovereignty. Hence Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales all call themselves countries too. This international body doesn't shy from calling Hong Kong and Taiwan countries too. http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes/iso_3166_code_lists/english_country_names_and_code_elements.htm My apology to the OP as I derailed this thread.
They literally listed Taiwan as TAIWAN, PROVINCE OF CHINA . They also listed UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS as a "country". Guess I got the meaning.
The arm sale actually put little or no pressure on Beijing. After all, China has gone through it many many many times last century. We have seen worse, nothing new this time... But at the mean time, Beijing is playing it LOUD. What a great opportunity to showcase imperialist US' evil intention and educate Chinese youth! The louder Beijing shouts the better the result. And what a good excuse to increase this yr's defense budget... the best part is, after all these BS, the world still can't resist cheap Chinese good. And China is still building its infrastructure and catching up western technology....It's like nothing has happened, Bingo! Recent incidents only show o8ma's frustration. Google's BS, Clinton's speech , heavy tariff on Chinese goods, arm sale and o8ma's future meeting with dalai...everything sounds so familiar and predictable. And this is pretty much all they can come up with. LMAO.
After you said China obviously doesn't need Taiwan and Taiwan has proven over time that it doesn't need China. and you deliberately chose to be oblivious about what actually happened across the Taiwan strait for the past century, I find it's hard to discuss things with you rationally, and you clearly can't see the bigger picture behind the arm sale. Live in your own fantom world in peace. I say this regarding US and PRC as players, yet Taiwan is a minor bargaining chip, in which case the US is mostly the aggressor and intruder.
In the Sino-US 8.17 communique, it is clearly stated that US AGREES TO GRADUALLY REDUCE THE ARM SALES TO TAIWAN. This is a compromise after hard bargaining for the Chinese side, otherwise it would be "(US)stop arm sales once and for all". Nevertheless, it's the US who has been playing the hooligan role regarding the communique along the way, at least from the surface. Or it's just both sides agree to say one thing but do another behind the door in order to fool the public? It's beyond ridiculous.
Pseudo Redneck, would you do us all a favor and quit making multiple posts in a row? You had 4 in a row on the previous page, and 3 in a row here, and counting. It isn't following the BBS etiquette that Clutch prefers. You can respond to multiple posts in a single post by you. Takes up less space on a page and is easier for everyone else to follow, should they have a desire to do so. Just a heads-up.
