Taguba Report: Systemic Torture of Iraqi POWs For Months

I really don't know how this can be justified. I don't understand, how can you argue for these actions?

No situation in the entire world exists which would make it ok for these actions to occur. Maybe more understandeable, but not ok.

It's just like saving a child from an abusive father, then abusing them for your benefit.

 

One thing I don't understand, why would anyone record these things?

 

A couple of reasons for recording:a.) if you see nothing wrong with it, why not?
b.) if you do see something wrong with it, and the other soldiers do not, how do you prove it?

 

Read some Amnesty International reports... torturers always act with impunity and the implicit OK of the higher ups. Hence the carefree attitude about the pictures.

 

Oh boy, here we go. Anybody who disagrees with me = traitor.

Uncy tim, the dialogue is operating on a slightly higher intellectual plane than that, trader jorge notwithstanding, somehow I'm not surprised that you seem to have missed the boat.

 

Bc they're "patriotic"...

 

Why must you take us down this path, SamFisherPrice? I was making a joke about the connection to the torture of POWs and Hanoi Jane. It had nothing to do with debate. I only ask why with every topic we must go down this bumpy road. Your unfounded attacks and inferior insults have only proved your idiocy. By the way, I have never said anyone who disagrees with me is a traitor. I have said nothing even remotely close, but I guess for those of you who have "caught the boat" seem to bring those two separate planes together. Are you defending Hanoi Jane, perchance?

 

Sorry to have misinterpreted your attempt at humor; such tactics (dissent = betrayal) are regularly employed in real life by both the political class and the inhabitants of this forum.

Why would I defend her? She's born again, Christ gives her all the defense she would ever need.

 

But when the President uses the Bible and Christianity, it is somewhat "scary" and he shouldn't bring religion into politics or something like that.

 

Not sure where that came from, but FWIW he can use it however he wants...it's the results not the motivation that bothers me.

 

It seems a few of your fellow liberals have expressed concern about his use of Biblical passages. I didn't know if you felt that way or not, so I had to toss that in there for good measure.

 

Shoot, I don't care when he recites Biblical passages. I just get pissed when he touts John and Peter and then bombs Paul.

 

LOL, sig material!

 

*cough* Vietnam *cough*

 

May 2, 2004, 11:16AM

Top U.S. general: No pattern of prisoner abuse
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- The nation's top general said today that abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American troops in Iraq is not widespread and the actions at a Baghdad prison of "just a handful" have unfairly tainted all American forces.

An internal Army report found that Iraqi detainees were subjected to "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, according to The New Yorker magazine, which said it obtained a copy of the report.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said "categorically" that "there is no evidence of systematic abuse" in the U.S. detention operations in the region.

"We review all the interrogation methods. Torture is not one of the methods that we're allowed to use and that we use," Gen. Richard Myers said. "I mean, it's just not permitted by international law, and we don't use it."

The abuses at the prison included threats of rape and the pouring of cold water and liquid from chemical lights on detainees, according to the published account.

Six U.S. soldiers face courts-martial in the case. Myers said the six have been reassigned and are "essentially being detained while these investigations go forward."

Myers told ABC's "This Week" that he had not seen the 53-page report by Major Gen. Antonio Taguba that the magazine said it obtained. "I cannot comment on the veracity of that report," Myers said.

But, echoing comments last week by President Bush, Myers said, "It's really a shame that just a handful can besmirch maybe the reputations of hundreds of thousands of our soldiers and sailors, airmen and Marines who've been over there."

Myers said the Army is trying to determine whether military guards were encouraged to use such tactics in order to make prisoners disclose more information during interrogations.

"It's a good question, and we're looking into that part," Myers said. He said he would be "very surprised if there was somebody on the intelligence side saying, `Go do this,' because everybody knows that's wrong."

The Army investigation reportedly put a share of the blame for the abuses on military intelligence and private contractors.

Myers said contractors help as translators but always are under military supervision. "They're never on their own," he said.

The New Yorker report said intelligence personnel had set physical and mental conditions for interrogations.

On "Fox News Sunday," Myers said, "Setting physical and mental conditions for interrogation, by itself, that's something you do. What we don't do is we don't torture."

Myers said the United States should try to assure Iraqis that those Americans responsible for the alleged abuses "will be brought to justice. And that's what they should expect from us."

Myers also said, "I think we'll overcome it," when asked about the effect of the scandal on U.S. efforts in Iraq.

Lawmakers said that may take time.

"I hope that the incredible damage this situation has caused will be somewhat counterbalanced by the millions of acts of kindness and generosity and sacrifice that American soldiers have made in Iraq, for the Iraqi people," said Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

Since photographs were televised last week of the treatment by military personnel of Iraqi prisoners, the subject has caused widespread revulsion and outrage not only among Iraqis but throughout the Arab countries.

"Everybody understands the phenomenal damage this accusation has caused in that part of the world," said Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden, ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

He was disturbed by the fact that Myers has not seen the report.

"I don't get the sense that they understand what an incredible sense of urgency there is here," Biden said.

"No one's going to believe in the Arab world, no one's going to believe in Europe, ... many people are not going to believe in the United States of America, that in fact we are earnest about this.

"This is the single most significant undermining act that's occurred in a decade in that region of the world in terms of our standing."

 

My sentiments exactly.

This is why I am still shocked and in disbelief. Why would anyone record this "videographically" or photographically? That is parallel to making a "home video" of you and your partner?

I hope someone can help me undertsand how these pictures was taken and made the airwaves.

 

My, my, my! What was that I was saying about jumping to conclusions? MacBeth and the rest of you NY Times reading 'experts',

DEFEND YOURSELF

 

re:any means justifies preventing attacks - if that was the intention, it didn't seem to work before the pictures were released. It would be hard to top the number of attacks that our forces in Iraq were already undergoing.



This is saying they used the pictures to intimidate new prisoners - this is what you'll get if you don't talk.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-02-abuse-cover_x.htm
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Frederick seemed to buttress Karpinski's claims in a journal that he sent to relatives. "I questioned some of the things I saw," he wrote. He described practices such as "leaving inmates in their cell with no clothes or in females underpants, handcuffing them to the door of their cell." He wrote that when he raised questions, "The answer I got was, 'This is how military intelligence wants it done.' "

In civilian life, Frederick works as a guard at Virginia's Buckingham Correctional Center. But he wrote in his journal that techniques he used at home for controlling prisoners didn't work in Iraq. His uncle, Bill Lawson, said Frederick told family members the disturbing photos were taken so they could be shown to new prisoners arriving for interrogation, to "soften them up" for interrogation.

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Jumping to conclusions?