yes but they underachieved - they made the playoffs the year BEFORE that the Rockets got the Number 1 pick one year, then won over 40 games the next - when a season goes bad early... its all over unless you are the baby bulls or the 2005 rockets
Just because Cat was chopped liver to Weisbrod doesn't mean he should be left out of the equation. This board loves to pull the 1 to 1 perspective, and it's always ridiculous to compare Steve to Tmac. Who on this board ever did that before the trade was announced? It's usually the same members who called the Orlando press homers early in the season who are gloating now. The season isn't even done with... With that said, the intangibles are getting apparent with every game. Tmac fits better with Yao, than Steve ever will. The personal chemistry is different, but there isn't conflict in their on court chemistry so far.
The Magic team this year, as compared to last year, is not even related! Sure they wear the same uniforms, but the players on the court are a totally different mob - and I'm NOT talking about the ones who got traded! Hill is back Garrity is back Turkoglu is new Battie is new Howard is new Nelson is new Stacey Augmon is new Brandon Hunter is new That's 8 new faces for this year - not to mention Stevenson, who came halfway through last year! Imagine putting Tracy McGrady into that lineup - it suddenly has some potency to it! You can't tell me they wouldn't be better than 31-29 with him alongside those players? PG Nelson/ Lue/ Gaines SG McGrady/ Turkoglu/ Stevenson SF Hill/ Turkoglu/ Augmon PF Howard/ Howard/ Garrity C Battie/ Hunter/ And had they kept McGrady, they may well have chosen Okafur instead of Howard - either way they get a front court prospect. So it's not like the trade has single-handedly transformed the Magic... they were probably on par for some sort of transformation because of all the new role-players they brought in anyway!
HotBalla, You watch too much of the And 1 Mixtape Tour. Grant Hill is also back and playing very well this year. Francis never was, is or will be the reason for a 21 game improvement over a previous year. Francis puts up numbers because he dominates the ball. -P1st, S2nd
Had the Magic kept their team from last year, with an unhappy Mac and probably even more unhappy teammates who knew he slacked off, they would not have anywhere close to the record they have this year, even if you factor in their new acquisitions or old ones (Hill). Some of you folks are quick to discredit anything with the name "Franics" attached to it. The trade worked out for both teams, and we're in a better position because of the work that CD did after the Orlando trade. The team we had immediately following the trade was not one that could have won 8 games in a row. Applaud CD's moves AFTER the Francis trade for our current rosy outlook on our team, Weisbro is a moron and had he made as many savvy moves as CD (though I initially didn't think so), the Magic would have a much better record. We are where we are because of the moves that happened AFTER the big trade.
My thoughts exactly. The way I feel about the Rockets this year(both for our future and present) is just way better than I did last year. Another counter-argument for comparing the records is to look at it this way. Suppose the current Rockets team add Grant Hill and Dwight Howard. This means a starting lineup of Yao/D. Howard/G. Hill/T-Mac/Sura. That is a championship caliber lineup, as opposed to just a solid playoff team.
not true Lakers are worse Spurs are more beatable Sonics and suns will fade as always Kings are not as solid I think the magic made the stupid cat for christie trade it killed their season CD made improving trades Weisbrod made trades than have weakened the team Take away the christie trade. . ithink they are better Rocket River
But your are changing the story. The issue wasn't an "unhappy" TMac in a *pretend 2004-2005* season. How do you know that TMac would have been unhappy if other players would have been brought in to help him out? One of the reason that he was unhappy because he had to shoulder more of the load than he wanted. But the Magic have brought in more player to help out. Plus Hill is heathy. Secondly, you can't assume that Tmac would have been unhappy this year with the Magic without acknowledging that Tmac was unhappy last year w/the Magic (a fact, not an assumption) -- Noting that this is one of the major reasons they had such a BAD record in the first place (as well as other factors). I do agree with SamCassell that you can't *just* look at the records. Why? Because the season hasn't finished yet! And that's when you will really be able to tell. And the next year, so on and so forth.
Everyone needs to take note what Rocket River says above...He's partially correct... Yes, the Magic are worse off with Christie. But they are not *that much* better with Mobley. The Magic management thought that the team played too little defense. They were still inconsistent. They'd beat a good team but then loose to a bad team. So, if you think that is *better* well, so be it. An interesting note is that Mobley is having fun in Sacramento. Why was the trade good for him? Because the core of the Kings are made up of smart players. They know how the play the game -- specifically Bibby (although nether the Magic or Kings play very good defense; but that's another story).This is why Christie could play there. Why would Christie struggle with the Magic? Guess! What's the common denominator?
Well I think given the deterioration of the situation in Orlando with Tmac's unhappiness with managemnent, he would have been unhappy no matter the situation. But thats a minor point, my main point was that the Rox are better because of what CD did after the trade, and the Magic arent because of what Weisbro did after the trade as well. Rocket River lays out my points pretty well, he just doesnt ramble like me =P
It could have possibly (deterioration in Orlando). I feel that the Magic, although would have improved their record (w/Tmac)...they wouldn't have changed much on the defensive end. Plus, they were one of the softest teams in the NBA. So, if they would have gotten a 48-52 win record...it really didn't matter in the long run. Yes, the Rox are better because of CD did after the trade. But note: We don't *just* play offense. We play both offense and defense. Add a couple smart all-stars...and presto! Better future. Our team has a lot of factors that are positive. Smart players, unselfish players, efficient role players. And a super star that does not turn the ball over AND he makes his teammates better. Could that happen with Francis? Not IMO. So, it doesn't really matter what the Magic do (hence my reply to Rocket River).
I see your point on that. Francis wasn't the best at setting up his teammates, so Sura, barry, and wesley might have gone the way of Piatkowski. I definetely think the trade worked out very well for us. I just think Orlando gained as well, they are in a far better place this year than they were last year, so I can't really say the trade was totally lopsided. It helped out both teams
Hotballa, IMHO, Orlando would have been even better if Tmac stayed. Grant Hill coming back and Dwight Howard starting....they would be much better...IMHO. Francis is like Marbury a good individual talent but far from a winner overall. DD
It's possible, they certainly had the talent. The setting though was cancerous, I think it coulda boiled down to a Vince-Raptors situation. Man you know I love SF, why you dogging him to Marbury for? SF doesn't roll his eyes when teammates miss a shot, he is 10 times the locker room presence that Marbury ever will be
Is Marbury the type of player a GM can build a team around? No. He should have stayed with KG. It would been better for both of them. We are now witnessing where that "I'll do it myself" got Marbury. But I have to note that Marbury is having his *best* season to date, IMO. What's his numbers? 21PPG, 8.3 APG, 46FG%, and only 2.8 TOPG. Take it or leave it. But IMO, he's doing the best he's ever done (even though other years he's scored almost 24 PPG).
He's a terrible locker room guy, and an even worse one on the court. You ever got on a team where the best guy is constantly yelling or making faces whenever someone does something wrong? Thats Marbury. All the talent in the world, and noone who wants to play with him.
That's true. Locker room chemistry and on-court demeanor is very important. That could be his downfall. Note: My stats above is not an endorsment that he should play with the Rox. Just pointing out that he has improve his FG% and TO rate.
That's why I appreciate and love the ROckets. I don't know..well maybe I'm biased becqause lol I mainly watch the Rockets..but wow the team is really like a team..like a family..supportive and loyal and yeah good. It was always like that with Steve and company. Now we've brought in great players..and they seem like good people. You knowl ike 50% of NBA players have criminal records..but hmm I wonder what % of overall population has criminal record..a lot probably Anyways yeah the only troublemakers recently..Tito Maddox..I don't know he just looked suspicioius. And Eddie Griffin. But anyways they're gone and we have a totally new team..THE HOUSTON ROCKETS
