The only player worth anything? Compare with whom? How about comparing with 2.5 Battiers? How about comparing with 4 Alstons? How about 30 Laundrys? Those thing you mentioned is the least Tmac should do.
Bottom line is, the least he could do is help us win. Which has been what he's been doing. No need to argue, there is no other player in the league who could do what T-mac does with a roster like his with a new line up.
I'm trying to extract analysis out of this. It seems you think: - Tmac went 40 plus mins each game; and was one important factor for the Win. You'l find no disagreement in my posts. - You think we shouldn't criticize after a win. I disagree. I don't think you should accept in victory what you wouldnt accept in defeat. This is just a philosophical difference between us as fans. I don't doubt you're die hard, otherwise you wouldn't be posting here. As for me, the Rockets have been my favorite team since I was in grade school. - You seem to think I owe someone an apology. I don't understand this, unless it's that you think i should apologize for criticizing Tmac after a win. Or you want an apology because you think my prior thread was wrong. If that's the case, the correctness of my prior thread was an opinion about the questions below. Implicit in your post is the fact that you disagree with my views. What are yours? i like a good discussion, not the emo rant. - You think I made this thread so i wouldn't be bashed. Actually, my intent was to analyze Tmac's game 2 and 3 performance to see if there was much difference because we lost game 2 and won game 3. My conclusion was he played a bit better and more assertive in Game 2 at the end because he had some more energy. But I still think he isn't the cold blooded closer. Disagree with my conclusions and analysis if you will. That's why we're here. But you are mistaken regarding my intent. (I certainly don't mind being wrong or being bashed. You don't get far in life without going through either. and if you haven't been wrong or based, then you're probably not stretching your mind or normal comfort zone). Finally - I don't take this personally and since you seem to disagree, i'd like to understand what you think of Tmac. - do you think he is a 4th quarter closer. is he mentally tough? - do you think a Tmac led squad (with a healthy Yao and Rafer) can win a title. - if you were GM, what would you do? These are the questions that everyone is trying to answer in their own minds.
You should apologize for being such an attention w**** lately. You don't have to start a thread with *every* musing you have about the state of the Rockets. What's next? Your thoughts on Yao Ming's suit choices? Hamlet didn't give this many tortured soliloquies. You *define* emo right now.
Well for one, T-mac is the last person analysis. He has shown up in the fourth quarter of game 3, and hell yeah he is a fourth quarter finisher. As far as I'm concern, he finished off tons of fourth quarter this season strong, but that is of course when he has sufficient rest. And yes t-mac can lead a healthy squad with Yao and rafer and win a title. If I was a GM what would I do? I'm going to look into other players who can compliment t-mac. What I'm trying to say is why you made a "post can-of-quit" thread. There are tons of players who have flaws that need to be worked on. Scola, Luther (even though he didn't play), brooks, jackson. But yet out of all those players you decided to pick t-mac (who arguebaly have the least to work on)again and make another thread out of it. Why not make a thread that compliments more than critcize? Say, "t-mac has been very assertive, but other players need to step up their game as well if we're going win." Instead of "t-mac finally shows up in the fourth quarter, but at this state of the game t-mac will hurt his team even though he went at average 20-5-5 in each playoff game. We won because of landry and the other players." Of course, this is what we see every game so, its another thing. Even t-mac realizes this.
Again I think you make some interesting points. But from the original thread: "I'm done with Tmac when it really counts. I'm totally done. He might win regular season games. But he is not your money man when it counts. You'd think your best player on the floor would go down shooting. You'd think your best player woud demand the ball when it's winning time. No, Tracy didn't run up and demand the ball. No, Tracy didnt make something happen. No, all he did was open up a massive can of quit. I'm so pissed off. I was close to the action. I saw his face and body language up close and personal. I'm the last one to want to admit that our guy isn't tough enough. But he isn't. From this point, all decisions must be made with the understanding that Yao is No. 1, and Tmac is not winner. Period. I hate every word I just typed, but it's true. Someone please talk me out of it." That sounds like someone who is pissed that the Rockets lost and is looking for someone to lay the blame on, which is fine, but let's not pretend you did a whole bunch of analysis there. Your arguments in this thread are alot more rational. I disagree that TMac isn't a "closer." He's closed out plenty of games this year, and in year's past. But I do agree that you don't owe anyone an apology.
lebron most likely could b/c he's a great playmaker and he trusts his teammates regardless of how you play, but not kobe. kobe is simply a scorer and if he was on this team, he wouldn't try to pass to our players at all. remember when gasol went down, dude went on a shooting barrage that cost his teams some games. he would only pass if he knows you're a good player. i doubt he would keep passing to scola or some of our guys with their inability to finish right now. and as a result, the role players woudl not try as hard b/c they're not involved. remember, kobe blew a 3-1 lead also. so we've seen him do the same exact things as tmac has done as a solo guy. in game 1 v. the nugs, you can see him go 5-19 and his team still lead by 19. in game 2, you can see when he sits, the lead actually increases. these things happened in the playoffs mind you.
I respect everyone opinion even if I don't agree, but this entire deal about kobe,t-mac, and lebron is bs. I think kobe is great, but how come he didn't close out the suns after being up 3-1? How come the yr after shaq left, he was in the lotto? How come he was 5-7 without gasol/bynum? I think this roster isn't that good to begin with, then they lose yao and still win 68% of the games. Why is that? Its because tracy is the easiest star to play and win with. He spoon feed guys like scola,hayes and landry. He handles and sets the offense up despite being the only real offensive threat. We can all talk about his shotcomings, but kobe and lebron has them to. What about kobe snitching on shaq when he got in trouble in denver. What about throwing the organization under the bus despite having the only no trade clause? Lebron isn't a good ft shooter either. I think winning 55 games minus yao for 30 is a hell of a acc
I agree with you that McGrady as the facilitator rather than dominant scorer is the way to go. I disagree with you on two things: 1. I don't like Artest. Yes, we need tough guys on this team who can also score. Artest is that. But Artest is just too risky to take a gamble on. He can DESTROY a whole season for you on just a whim. We don't have that time to waste. There is a reason why he keeps running out of welcome wherever he goes. 2. I think Yao can be dominant. Yes, he is a nice guy and he will always be like that. But he has progressed, and continues to. Look at him now and compare that with his first couple of years. He has developed a dominating mentality. And his stamina has improved a lot this year. Maybe that has something to do with Adelman's system. Anyways, he is capable of playing 40 minutes a game without sucking air. To me, this roster, if healthy, is already good enough to contend. Don't get me wrong. I am all for continuous upgrading. But you have to be careful about chemistry. We have good chemistry now. Players like Bonzi and Artest are potential chemistry killers. Actually, we already have some tough minded people in our rotation, guys like Battier, Landry, and Scola. We need three things, in order of importance 1. Healthy Yao and McGrady 2. More shooters off the bench (I want upgrades on Head and Novak) 3. More depth at PG, assuming Jackson isn't staying (Rafer is okay, but an upgrade would be great)
T-Mac was not exactly known for sharing the ball either. On "Around the Horn" Woody Paige revealed that while he was covering the college bowl games he ran into a reporter for the Houston Chronicle who told him that the other Rockets didn't like T-Mac because he was a ball stopper. As for Kobe, there's other ways to get you teammates open. One is to attract a lot of attention, and if you think T-Mac has the same reputation as Kobe among defenders you're deluded.
you heard that from a reporter (in fact, i think that rumor started from CHARLES BARKLEY THIS YEAR), you know the rumors that houston wants tmac traded (those rumors that have no evidence). however, we have heard things about kobe from phil jackson, magic johnson, shaq, smush parker, and actual players. BIG DIFFERENCE. the "selfish" things you heard about tmac are made up from the media, never players. the things you heard about kobe are from media AND players AND coaches. but if you surround kobe with the talent that he has been surrounded earlier than his career, he WILL trust you. the problem is when you don't, he will throw his teammates under the bus. when gasol came back, he started passing again (like he is right now). when gasol went out earlier this yr, kobe started jacking it up. he only believes in you if he knows you're good.
look kobe is a MUCH better scorer than tmac right now (simply b/c he's a better jumpshooter, tmac's jumpshot has betrayed him). but tmac compensates with his playmaking. but if you say kobe is a more dominant player, i'll agree. kobe is arguably the best player right now. what i'm trying to say is kobe has problem trusting players he knows sucks offensively. he will never be able to play with chuck hayes, alston, scola (so far in the playoffs)... that's why he never liked brown, bynum (that's why he threw him under the bus), smush... but if you give him all-stars/superstars (shaq/gasol), he'll be a brilliant teammates.
Actually I didn't hear it from anybody, personally. Woody Paige, on "Around the Horn", said that one of the Chronicle reporters told him that the other Rockets didn't like T-Mac because he was a ball stopper. As for Kobe, I don't like the guy personally. But he is head and shoulders above T-Mac as a scoring threat now. He may be the best active player in the NBA. I like T-Mac a lot. But it's obvious to anybody who knows basketball that along with all of his positives come a bunch of negatives, some of them serious ones. All of the T-Mac worship on this board just makes me scratch my head.
i'm sure that started from barkley. we never heard of such a thing until that. the same thing also happens after magic said we should part with one of our stars. the next day, EVERYBODY claims houston is looking to trade tmac. c'mon badgerfan, you have more sense than that. like i said, i agree with everyone if they say kobe is better. i have zero arguments on that. nobody is arguing with you or anybody who claims that. what i'm trying to say is kobe is not as good of a teammate, and we have a lot of "fairly marginal" offensive players that kobe will never be able to trust. as a result, he would never incorporate them into the offense. that's why i said kobe would never do what tmac has done for this team. sure he'll score more, but we won't win more. HOWEVER, if you replace lebron with this team, yea, we can be better. lebron trusts his teammates as much as anybody and he's just as reat of a playmaker as tmac. i'll trade tmac for lebron on the spot (if we're talking about this houston team) and add anything cleveland wants. the problem is, tmac will never get you lebron (or kobe) for that matter. why can't we just respect tmac for what he has done? he has his faults. we all agree on them. he's lazy at times, lacks intensity, loses focus... im fine with all that for the REGULAR SEASON. what i have a problem with is when people like you say he's a quitter, a loser, doesn't have the mentality to want to win... that's completely false. tmac has done what every person in the houston organization wants him to do this playoffs -> elevate his play. he has done that. now he just needs to increase his damn fg%. i have loved every part of tmac's game so far this playoffs: scoring for the most part, rebounding, playmaking, defense, AND leadership.
I meant every word posted. And that was my opening post in that thread. If you're inclined, you can look up my other several posts in that thread and they are entirely consistent with what i've said here. Granted, it was 1 a.m. by the time I started that first thread, so i didn't get it all in the original post and perhaps it would have been better if it was all in one place. but my views and analysis has been consistent with this thread.
If you seriously believe Barkley's behind that rumor you're nuts. Paige's claim is that Rockets players spoke to a Chronicle reporter, who then passed it on to Paige. Seriously, how does Barkley even fit into this? My point is that Kobe's been knocked for being selfish, but so has T-Mac. And they've both had to work to change their game when it comes to getting teammates involved. So far as leadership, I hate to say it but I think Alston really plays that role for the Rockets. He's on the one that went to McGrady and calmed him down after Scola made the second free throw last night. T-Mac is not a leader. He's way too laid back. What's more critical is that he lacks the grit, the relentlessness, that players like Kobe and Lebron have. He's not going to motivate anyone. That's fine--I think the Rockets can still win if they have Yao and a team filled with guys who don't need to be motivated, like Scola and Battier.
