Never compare Tmac to Jordan. ever. that's an insult to every NBA that has ever watched basketball. true signs of a TOF: using deceptive statistics to justify failures. anybody who has seen Michael Jordan play knows that Tracy McGrady isn't 1/100th of him. This is coming from a Rockets fan, you say that to a Chicago fan and he would turn you into Vienna sausage and put you on a poppy seed bun .
and you are right, I haven't seen as much as you have as a rocket fan. Unfotunatly I was very young during the championship seasons! Me thinking that we should retire his jersey has nothing to do with what happened then! I think when you are judging a players career, you ask yourself how good that player was. When I ask that I can answer that tmac was one of the most talented players in NBA history! And I don't see how that takes away from my rocket knowledge, I'm obsessed with the Rockets and the only thing that separates my knowledge from yours is that you witnissed it and I heard the stories from my father and have spent many many hours researching it. Me thinking that tmac deserves it has does not mean I don't understand what Hakeem and the others did for our franchise, but those things simply cannot be done twice! Which is why you can't hold everyone to those standerds. If you do, than our rafters are already full and nobody else will ever be there, I think that's unfair.
he didnt specifically choose the lakers over the rockets, but he called them to win the finals while his own team was not only still in the playoffs, but about to face them.
there are not many players up there and that's the point. there's no race to retire numbers up at toyota center, it's reserved for true greatness. will we see a player who's greatness deserves to be up there? only time will tell. I hold the Rockets up to those standards. We aren't the Clippers. The Lakers won a bunch of championships, their fans hold the franchise to those standards.
and thank God we aren't the clips lol. We probably agree more than we think on this, I just think mcgardy did enough, you obviously don't lol
i know he didn't do enough. 0 play victories 0 MVPs 0 Finals MVPs 0 DPOYs 0 Championships 0 Finals appearances 0 Conference Finals appearances
He had MVP quality seasons. You can't putt the playoffs on him, you see his playoff stats above! He did his part! With your "knowledge" you should know thy it takes more than one to win in the playoffs! This is a lost cause, i'm not gonna convince you, and you aren't gonna convince me! It's time to give it up!
give up on what? you think 0+0=1 and I think 0+0=what Tmac did for the Rockets MVP quality seasons? what kind of crap is this? he didn't win any. Moses won 3, Hakeem won 1 and Tmac didn't remotely come close to these guys. I understand you TOFs. you KNOW there are much better players that have accomplished more and your jealousy of Kobe, Tim Duncan, etc is forcing you to create an alternate world in your minds where Tmac is better. you convinced yourself that 0+0=1.
Actually, I'm very aware that 0+0=0 lol! I was trying to stay respectful but now your pissing me off, because I really just want to go to sleep! Why would I be jealous of Kobe!? And what the hell does Tim Duncan have to do with this! It's obvious tht your living in the glory days and your too stubern to realize that tmac was one of the most talented players in NBA history, that's not an openion that's fact! Your disagreement with that means NOTHING! I'll try again, we are not going to convince each other so just drop so I can go to sleep! You do work right!? Or do you just set at home all day writing hate notes to tmac and pleasering youself to the face of Moses Malone!?!
dude. try spell check. pissing you off by telling you the truth? When Tmac retires, his number won't be up in Toyota Center, but I'm sure you can hang his jersey in your closet and pretend it's Toyota Center. He played well as a Rocket, but he didn't accomplish anything and the fans do not adore him like they do the others. I brought up Duncan and Kobe to give you examples of players for their franchises who will get their numbers retired, guaranteed. Do I need to tell you what they did and compare them to Tmac?
No, pissing off by continuing an argument that's obviously going nowhere! I know what they did ANC I know tmac had the talent to do the same! Who the hell cares about spelling!? I'm done now, okay, do you understand that!? I actually have a life and arguing with an old man at 130 in the morning is not my priority!! Btw, the closet thing is a good idea!
Dude, relax... i'm comparing only their playoff STATS vs them as players. If i took their names out of the stats, they would look like comparable players - but in my previous post, i made it clear that the STATS ARE COMPARABLE. I'm only using statistics to make a point - the talent that was on the team at their (jordan's and kobe's) disposal during the playoffs. There's probably no body that will ever reach the point of greatness as Michael Jordan did. Kobe till this point has been the closest IMO. But you also have to realize what kind of talent we had on this team when McGrady was healthy - and there wasn't much. 9 man rotation in 04-05 Playoffs: Yao, Bowen, McGrady, Wesley, Sura, Padgett, Barry, Mike James, Mutombo 8 man rotation in 06-07 Playoffs: Yao, Howard, Battier, McGrady, Alston, Hayes, Head, Mutombo 10 man rotation in 07-08 Playoffs: Mutombo, Scola, Battier, McGrady, Jackson, Alston (played 3 games), Head, Hayes, Landry (rookie), Brooks (rookie) 10 man rotation in 08-09 Playoffs: Yao, Scola, Battier, Artest, Brooks, Lowry, Landry, Hayes, Von Wafer We lost in the 2nd round in 08-09 to the eventual Champs (Lakers), but IF (the most loved word IF on this board), Yao and McGrady had been 100% healthy, we could have made it to at least the WCFs. I've been through broken ankles and I've been through ACL tears. I dont know if you've been through major injuries before, but injuries take a huge toll on a players psyche. In McGrady's case, when your body repeatedly breaks down on you, when you're expected to be the leader, and the guy to carry the team, it takes a toll on you physically, and especially MENTALLY. Regardless of how his tenure ended here, IMO, he should be applauded for what he DID do for this organization. I dont think its a fluke that 33% of our 50+ win seasons were with McGrady playing. BTW... what's a TOF?
you used it to manipulate perception. you seriously think Michael Jordan on any of those Rockets teams instead of Tmac would have lost? I think not.
there is no argument, Tmac didn't accomplish anything worthy of his number being retired or receiving a standing ovation. you stated that his number should be retired and I and others stated who is retired and what their qualifications are. you put this thread here, so you started it and you knew that Rockets fans will disagree with you. if you love Tmac so much, go buy a ticket to the game and go cheer him to your hearts desire.
Well it seems to me that the 9 times that Jordan did not with a Championship would prove you otherwise... Not taking anything away from Jordan's greatness, but the way you're making it seem is that Jordan would be able to carry any team over the top - which certainly wasnt the case when he was in the NBA. He needed to have the right players around him to help him get there - he also could not do it by himself.
