Seems a tad hypocritical to me. On the other hand, there is nothing about this that seems illegal to me (assuming Switzerland operates approximately similar to the US).
Its also none of our business, just as invading Iraq to remove an oppressive dictator was none of our business.
I don't think anyone is advocating invading Switzerland, sanctions or even diplomatic pressure. All we are doing is discussing in the abstract whether this is a good idea or not.
Were this applied generally to the entire BBS, the entire BBS would shut down. It's like dividing by zero for message boards.
Both. It only increases the perception among muslims that western nations are "anti-islam". At the same time, muslim immigrants are almost universally anti-assimilation and often directly at odds with the ideologies inherent to the liberal governments of those very same nations. In other words, while the issue is unproductively inflammatory, it's really hard to feel upset about it.
wasn't surprised in the least when the vote passed considering switzerland is one of the most xenophobic countries on the planet.....it is near impossible for immigrants who have been living there even decades to gain citizenship and illegal for foreigners to purchase property there.....they really only like outsiders if they come for a short while to spend money at watch and chocolate shops or to ski the slopes, etc.
Well, they also need SE Europeans to come work as the help. They just can't get too comfortable and build things for themselves.
Or, beating them back with a stick ! Religious rights (chuckle)...is that what this is......has the Muslim faith been banned in Switzerland...dang, I need to read that article again. Because I am pretty sure it was just the building of minarets which was banned. DD
Do you have some evidence that muslim immigrants are almost universally anti-assimilation? From one of the original articles in this thread it sounds like Muslim immigrants in Switzerland have blended in. [rquoter]And it happened in a land where Islam has never been very visible. The most striking feature of Geneva’s 30-year-old mosque is its modesty: its minaret (one of only four in the country) merely matches the height of the building, even though permission existed for a much taller one. And the Muslim call to prayer has not been heard in Switzerland, except (during the referendum campaign) from anti-Islamic activists trying to alarm the public. [/rquoter]
I suppose I could dig out a bunch of articles for you if you want, Sishir, but I'd wager that not terribly productive since the terminology is subjective. I don't know what quality of evidence would sway you one way or the other. I believe there were a great number of interesting news bits conveying this sort of statement around the time that the Danish cartoons of Muhammad were printed and the ensuing fiasco. Certainly, in my own travels around Europe I would argue it true, although I will also be the first to admit that Europeans are, by and large, intensely xenophobic and often quite racist. For the sake of argument, I'll just off-hand reference the desire of muslims in the UK and sweden to use Sharia law for marital/divorce/inheritance type court cases as probably the best example, with the plethora of freedom of speech issues, honor killings, and other abominations as further instances of not accepting the rules of the country immigrated to. Heck, I think some muslims are even offended by the protection of apostates under freedom of religion laws in the EU. Is this "almost universal"? I don't know - but it's definitely indicative of resistance to even the most fundamental of western ideologies.
I say good for the Swiss and I hope that Sweden follows suit very soon. I know that there is a real problem in certain areas of Sweden, specifically Malmö. These countries have a long history, culture, etc. that shouldn't be replaced or ignored. When you move to another country, you assimilate with the locals, not the other way around.
Obviously there is tons of anecdotal evidence of Muslims not assimiliating but "almost universal" would imply that the vast majority of Muslim immigrants are against assimiliation. My experience with Muslim immigrants, here in the US since I haven't spent much time in Europe, do assimilate. They learn English, respect US democracy and customs. Few if want to see Sharia law codified in US laws. I did a project for the Islamic Association of MN a few years ago and they told me that Muslims like the ones you describe are very much the minority. Anyway in regard to this issue the article I cited though points out that in Switzerland this definately isn't the case and the law as is addresses a non-issue currently in Switzerland.
To take the flipside how many Westerners when they move to Islamic countries assimiliate? When I was a kid I lived in Saudi Arabia for awhile and we lived in a compound that pretty much looked like a suburb in Phoenix?
On the muslim position on assimilation: the complaints here are very similar to pre-WWII complaints about Jews refusing to assimilate to European culture (even where they did assimilate a great deal). They have their own houses of worship, their own provisions of food, their own sub-language and sub-culture and sub-economy; they look different and aren't allowed to intermarry. Oh, and they have a universal plot to take over the world. Of course, I'm not surprised that Europe won't change its spots. And Muslims cannot completely assimilate for the same reasons the Jews wouldn't. Their religions do make them different. That's obtuse; hopefully, knowingly so. The ban only affects Muslim religious institutions. They aren't banning church towers, which are basically the same thing. And, as it is symbolic, it symbolizes that Islam is not welcome in Switzerland and that the Swiss don't want Muslims around. Moreover, the campaign that got the law passed, about which we can assume some implicit agreement from the Swiss electorate, suggests that Muslims pose a threat of terrorism or war. This is a giant **** You to the whole Muslim population of Switzerland. That's got to hurt when an absolute majority of the electorate of the country you live in tells you to **** off and GTFO because of your religion. Sure, you can stay and practice your religion; just remember that we hate you. Carry on.
