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[Official] Censorship from governmental actors thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, May 28, 2021.

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Who does it better?

  1. Sweet Lou 42

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  2. tinman

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  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    #121 Os Trigonum, Sep 11, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2021
    tinman likes this.
  2. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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  3. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    It's 2021 and we have legislators wanting to ban specifics words. Hopefully Turley will pick up on this.

    'Woke,' 'multiculturalism,' 'equity': Wisconsin GOP proposes banning words from schools | TheHill

    The list of barred words or concepts includes “equity,” “inclusivity education,” “multiculturalism” and “patriarchy,” as well as “social justice” and “cultural awareness.”

    The measure would apply to both instruction provided to students in the classroom as well as training provided to school employees.
     
  4. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Ban LatinX cause that’s a made up word
     
  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    New York Considers Legislation to Curtail Free Speech in the Name of Democracy

    https://jonathanturley.org/2021/12/...curtail-free-speech-in-the-name-of-democracy/

    excerpt:

    The great civil libertarian Justice Louis Brandeis once warned that “the greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.” New York State Democrat Senator Brad Holyman is one of those “men of zeal.” With the approaching anniversary of the Jan. 6th riots, he has proposed a new law that would legislate an even greater level of censorship to prevent the “social media amplification” of views that are deemed harmful or “disinformation.” It is only the latest example of our “whatever it takes” politics.

    Under S.7568, there would be criminal liability for anyone who makes “a false statement of fact or fraudulent medical theory that is likely to endanger the safety or health of the public.”

    If this language is chilling for anyone who values free speech, Hoylman’s defense will freeze you to the bone. It is a censorship measure introduced on “the anniversary of the notorious January 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, and as vaccine hesitancy continues to fuel the Omicron variant.” It is a mix of algorithmic conspiracy theory and anti-free speech doublespeak:

    “Social media algorithms are specially programmed to spread disinformation and hate speech at the expense of the public good. The prioritization of this type of content has real life costs to public health and safety. So when social media push anti-vaccine falsehoods and help domestic terrorists plan a riot at the U.S. Capitol, they must be held accountable. Our new legislation will force social media companies to be held accountable for the dangers they promote.”

    For years, social companies have claimed protection from any legal consequences of their actions relating to content on their websites by hiding behind Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. Social media websites are no longer simply a host for their users’ content, however. Many social media companies employ complex algorithms designed to put the most controversial and provocative content in front of users as much as possible. These algorithms drive engagement with their platform, keep users hooked, and increase profits. Social media companies employing these algorithms are not an impassive forum for the exchange of ideas; they are active participants in the conversation.”

    The rationale is perfectly Orwellian. It treats the failure to censor as being a participant in “disinformation.”
    more at the link



     
  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Ok so when social media companies banned Trump and the right wanted to remove their section 230 protections, but not they want to protect their section 230 protections if content they promote causes harm?

    Just curious which side of the debate they are really on.
     
  7. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    they say who they are very clearly

     
  8. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    It's Dangerous to Allow Politicians and Officials to Decide What Constitutes 'Truth'
    "Governments realize that they are in an existential battle over who controls information."

    https://reason.com/2022/01/10/its-d...d-officials-to-decide-what-constitutes-truth/

    excerpt:

    It's no secret that governments worldwide are increasingly hostile to scrutiny of their conduct. But, at a moment when too many media outlets see their role as working with the state to reinforce official narratives, one advocate of press freedom reminds us that the struggle isn't over the "disinformation" and "misinformation" called out by opportunistic politicians, it's over control of information. Will people be free in the future to decide for themselves what's truth and what's BS? Or will we be spoon-fed whatever the powers-that-be endorse?

    "Governments realize that they are in an existential battle over who controls information, who controls the narrative, and they are waging a frontal assault against independent journalism around the world," Joel Simon, the exiting head of the Committee to Protects Journalists (CPJ), told CNN's Brian Stelter.

    "This is the information age, and we are in a kind of millennial battle over who controls information," he added. "Who controls it? That's the power struggle. And so, governments recognize—repressive governments, but even democratic governments—that this is an essential tool that they need to maintain power and journalists are their adversaries."

    ***
    Despite robust First Amendment protections for free speech rights, the U.S. is not immune to powerful people's desire to control information.

    "We're going to have to figure out how we rein in our media environment so that you can't just spew disinformation and misinformation," Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) insisted last year.

    In July, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki called on social media companies to act as government proxies by removing what the administration flags as "narratives dangerous to public health."

    Interestingly, CPJ's Joel Simon predicted the pandemic would empower efforts to control information.

    "[W]e must be mindful that when we get to the other side of the pandemic, we may be left with a narrative, being written by China, that government control over information was essential to combating the crisis," he warned in March 2020. "That would be a devastating blow to the global information system, one that could endure even as the memories of the terrible pandemic we are currently facing slowly fade."

    Since then, he's been proven painfully prescient as politicians' concerns have morphed from fighting "extremism" to suppressing "disinformation" to a weird amalgam of the two, unified by the alleged need to control what the public says, reads, and shares.

    That's not to say, by the way, that material tagged as extremism isn't extreme, or that posts called out as disinformation aren't false. To open a web browser is to encounter a wide world of bigotry, bogus concerns about vaccine safety, nonsensical charges about election integrity, and fact-free arguments over whether or not COVID-19 even exists. But bullshit isn't a recent invention.

    Free societies recognize that it's a lot more dangerous to let government officials designate what constitutes capital-T Truth than it is to respect people's rights to decide for themselves. When officialdom makes the call, legitimate news outlets get called "fake," as former President Trump often smeared his critics, extremists get conflated with opponents of school policies, as the Justice Department did last fall, and claims that COVID-19 originated in a lab leak in China are suppressed as conspiracy theoriesbefore later earning respectful treatment.

    Truthful information doesn't require a government seal of approval because government officials are as flawed and biased as anybody else. They're prone to declaring debates over for convenient reasons of their own even as new evidence emerges and disagreements remain unresolved not necessarily because of rejection of facts, but often over fundamental differences in values and preferences. Powerful figures are in no position to save us from bad information because they're a major source of the stuff themselves and, if allowed, can use force to impose their versions of reality on dissenters.

    We really are in an existential battle over who controls information, just as Joel Simon warned. It's not a battle over what constitutes truth, which remains as hard as ever to determine. Instead, this battle over control of information is a struggle over our freedom to decide for ourselves without having other people's decisions crammed down our throats.
    more at the link
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The concern that government determining objective truth is a valid concern.

    However with these paragraphs specifically, it seems like these takes are more easily held by the ethnic majority in power and that has clout like white Christians in America. The author treats extremist bigotry online as something one just has to cope with. However minority communitues like Jewish communities or Muslim communitues in Western nations etc probably have bad experience with bigoted rhetoric run amuck unchallenged in bubbled social media circles (think Christ church massacre).
     
  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    Washington's Governor Wants To Prevent Another January 6 with Unconstitutional Censorship
    Jay Inslee says we should make it a crime for politicians to lie about election results. What could go wrong?

    https://reason.com/2022/01/10/washi...r-january-6-with-unconstitutional-censorship/

    excerpt:

    Washington Gov. Jay Inslee wants to make it a misdemeanor for politicians to lie about election results. Yes, of course this would violate the First Amendment.

    To justify the idea, Inslee is invoking the anniversary of the riot at the U.S. Capitol. "January 6 is a reminder not only of the insurrection that happened one year ago, but that there is an ongoing coup attempt by candidates and elected officials to overturn our democracy. They are willing to do this by provoking violence, and today I proposed we do something about that," he wrote last week.

    He does not indicate what this has to do with elections in Washington state, all the way on the other side of the country, which is the only place where his law would apply.

    In August, five Republican legislators in Inslee's state held a rally encouraging the conspiracy theory that the 2020 presidential election was fraudulent. They cannot be punished for such speech, because the First Amendment protects such arguments—yes, even false arguments.

    Inslee thinks he can get around these protections by targeting falsehoods that are spread "for the purpose of undermining the election process" and "likely to incite or cause lawlessness." The wording of the bill is not publicly available yet, but the governor seems sure that it will fit within the limits of Brandenburg v. Ohio, the 1969 Supreme Court case establishing that speech inciting lawless action is not protected.

    But that precedent requires the threat of lawless action to be "imminent." Eugene Volokh, a law professor at UCLA, notes that this is not a minor threshold.

    "If I'm standing outside a police station and yelling 'burn it down,'" that counts as calling for imminent lawless action, Volokh explains. "But just saying an election is a fraud and we should do about it isn't incitement." And to the extent that speech can incite imminent violence, Washington already has a law criminalizing it.
    more at the link
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Yes it would violate the constitution. It's a haphazard solution to a real problem.

    My question to you is what is a possible solution to spreading of fake news that the election results were fraudulent? Because it is a concern that it might end our nation's democratic republic system.

    What do we do about a growing percentage of Americans being convinced our voting results are fake news? Is that not a sincere concern from us? If the percentage keeps on growing can you blame a politician trying to fix such a pressing issue with a hammer rather than something more precise? The GOP has to extend a hand in solving this issue of you don't want people to go that route.
     
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Also there seems to be a fine line between "spreading fake news that the results are fraudulent" and a purposeful misinformation campaign to create the conditions for a coup of our democracy. The later I'm assuming is not constitutional. How do we differentiate between that fine line?

    Btw, I'm trying better to address your concerns and not see you as a troll everyone you post these articles. Most of your articles do have sincere concerns in them. I actually I want to engage and try to figure out a constitutional solution to this issue because I genuinely believe it's a unsustainable issue going on.
     
  13. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    Sunlight is the best disinfectant
     
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  14. TheresTheDagger

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    I'm not sure it's enough anymore.
     
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  15. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Criminalizing misinformation is not going to work given that someone will find a way to classify the truth as misinformation someday (and someday soon given the current political situation).

    But solutions are needed. A populace with correct information is key to a vibrant democracy that can serve the best interests of its people vs caving to foreign actors interests. Misinformation is the greatest threat to our democratic institutions since the cold war.

    I think one thing that needs to be done is to reexamine changes in laws that allowed corporations to own multiple media companies thus creating conflict of interests. Another possibility is to extend the BBB to rate media companies on accuracy of facts - some sort of rating. Or to create independent non-partisan rating agencies akin to Moody's. I'm not a fan of censorship (by governmental actors especially) but do think social media platforms have an ethical responsibility to ensure content posted on their platforms does not cause harm - and that should be the litmus test for them.
     
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    I think https://mediabiasfactcheck.com does a pretty good job rating and evaluating various media companies, I tend to use that site a lot. Very fair and I think pretty accurate assessments.
     
  17. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I am sure it does, although my router won't let me visit it as it says the site contains malware.

    I think we need a third party that is so a-credited and trusted it can be amplified such that media sites wants to put their score on their site. And for social media sites that score the truthfulness of content from users can also be scored appropriately. The idea is that instead of censoring content, we give consumers information that empowers them over misinformation.
     
  18. Amiga

    Amiga 10 years ago...
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    The US gov determines what is indecent. What could go wrong? Seems like not much.

    Since the Nazi "democratic" rise, the German gov determines what is anti-constitutional or dangerous to the state. What could go wrong? Seems like not much.

    Court in SK can outlaw political parties that they judge as anti-democratic. What could go wrong? Seems like not much.

    Israel doesn't allow candidates who deny the "democratic character of the state of Israel". What could go wrong? Seems like not much.

    Taiwan doesn't allow political parties that have behaviors which they deem threaten the existence of Taiwan. What could go wrong? Seems like not much.

    What is more important - protecting freedom of speech even if it threatens democracy or protecting democracy? If you have no democracy, there is no longer freedom of speech or freedom of anything. Some States have "defensive democracy" laws that limit certain rights and freedoms in a democratic society TO protect rights and freedom. What has gone wrong? Seems like not much.
     
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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