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Suspected Chinese spy balloon found over northern U.S.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, Feb 2, 2023.

  1. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  2. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    I was wondering what the total cost of each of these intercepts is. After fuel, ordinance, maintenance, depreciation, wages and overhead for every person involved…3m a pop?
     
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  3. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    Interesting:

    Why China has both spy balloons and spy satellites
    [​IMG]

    Balloons have some advantages over satellites when it comes to surveillance, but also carry different risks — as Beijing recently learned when the U.S. shot down a Chinese spy balloon flying in U.S. airspace earlier this month.

    Why it matters: The U.S. and China are now embroiled in a deepening dispute over high-altitude balloons that is threatening to further derail the bilateral relationship.

    Driving the news: China's foreign ministry on Monday accused the U.S. of sending high-altitude balloons "illegally" into Chinese airspace more than 10 times since last year.

    • U.S. officials deny this. "Any claim that the U.S. government operates surveillance balloons over the PRC (People's Republic of China) is false," National Security Council spokeswoman Adrienne Watson said.
    Between the lines: The paths of high-altitude balloons are largely governed by winds. As they climb through the troposphere — where most weather occurs — they're buffeted by west-to-east prevailing winds.

    • Those winds make it relatively easy for China to launch balloons that would fly above the U.S., but much harder for the U.S. to fly balloons over China.
    • "Where are you launching them from? That gets left out of this a lot," James Lewis of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, tells Axios.
    • "Taiwan? Winds don't blow that way. Korea? Winds don't blow that way. Japan? You could do it if you didn't mind a bunch of them going off course. You could do it, but I think the Chinese are either confused or making this up."
    How it works: U.S. spy satellites were developed after high-altitude balloons and aircraft began to be targeted in enemy airspace.

    • Satellites can provide exquisite imagery and collect signals — from communications systems and other technology — but they are relatively easy to track, even by amateurs on the ground.
    • High-altitude balloons, however, can gather high-resolution images and signals, and fly in a part of airspace that make them relatively difficult to track. Balloons are also able to stay over one area for a longer time than a satellite.
    Yes, but: The norms that govern spying in space and airspace, where high-altitude balloons fly, are different.

    • The difference between orbit and airspace was established after the Soviet Union launched Sputnik in 1957.
    • Sputnik "goes up and goes around and nobody objects — including the United States — to that overflight," the Secure World Foundation's Brian Weeden tells Axios. "That establishes precedent that satellites can go round and round and they have this freedom of overflight — that space is legally different than airspace."
    • That means shooting down unknown foreign objects in a nation's airspace is tolerated today, whereas blowing up a spy satellite would likely be considered a huge escalation.

    The U.S. and China have different strategies for their spy satellite networks.

    • The U.S. has historically used a relatively small number of expensive, technically advanced satellites that take incredibly detailed images of Earth.
    • China, meanwhile, has a more distributed network of spy satellites that aren't quite so exquisite in their imagery but it's a "good enough approach," Weeden says.
    • The U.S. is interested in moving toward a more distributed spy satellite network, making it more resilient to attack and making the military less reliant on a small number of expensive satellites that could be appealing targets for jamming, dazzling and other interference.
    The intrigue: The high-altitude balloon dispute may also call into question China's spy satellite capabilities, Lewis says.

    • If the balloon shot down on Feb. 4 was collecting signals intelligence, it may mean China's spy satellites are limited in what information they can collect, he says.
    What to watch: A big question looms over 21st century space-based defense about defining where airspace ends and space begins.

    • Currently, there isn't a legal, accepted definition of where space begins and airspace ends internationally.
    • Some nations "want to be able to exploit this gray zone between air and space," Weeden said, adding that's because these countries are conducting activities in that grey zone they don't want them to fall into either airspace or space.
     
  4. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Okay

    “The White House said Tuesday that the U.S. intelligence community’s leading explanation for the three most recent unidentified objects shot down over North America is that they were being used for commercial or benign purposes.”
     
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  5. kubli9

    kubli9 Member

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    I would've preferred the government to do their usual thing and kept all of this under wraps rather than get these strange bits and pieces of information.
     
  6. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    They're checking our air response defense for when they drop the nukes. So far we failed miserably.
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    That's not true.....we basically removed the filter on our radar systems and now we are seeing everything usually it filters out things that are non-threatening.

    DD
     
  8. kubli9

    kubli9 Member

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    If it only filtered out non-threatening things then why the need to shoot these things out of the sky due to safety concerns?
     
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  9. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    The unidentified aerial phenomenon were flying at the altitude of commercial airlines.
     
  10. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Top secret video leaked ... NSA may come looking me ...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. coachbadlee

    coachbadlee Member

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  12. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    [​IMG]

    It's only a matter of time before history repeats.
     
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  13. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    I don't mean to interrupt basso's Biden-bashing postgasm, but it may be time to dust off this forgotten piece of history...

    Here's some light reading to help catch everyone up:

    Disclosure Project Briefing Document

    1.0 ABSTRACT – Purpose of The Disclosure Project Briefing Document

    This briefing document was written to provide an overview of a public disclosure of the very complex UFO/ET (Unidentified Flying Object/Extraterrestrial) subject and provide background materials and references for individuals to start their own research. This subject is inherently overwhelming as it touches on broad and profound implications for the future of mankind on our planet from both an intellectual and a technological perspective.

    We have provided recommended actions for different stakeholders (including the press, the public, congress, the military, the scientific establishment, the president of the US, and the members of the UFO/ET control groups). These recommendations should help smooth the disclosure process, making this issue the subject of open and informed discussion, both within our government and the public sectors. The background materials include the following types of information:

    1) Summaries of video taped testimony of military, government and private first-hand witnesses to UFO/ET events.
    2) A series of position papers describing the background history, the need and implications of disclosure and the dangers of continued secrecy.
    3) Fourteen major sightings cases with over two dozen military witnesses, many with multiple witnesses and supporting government documents.
    4) A series of 27 quotes from scientists and government witnesses who knew the subject is real.
    5) Reviews of two major recent reports by scientific review committees on the need for further research into the UFO phenomena.
    6) A high level review of technological issues including zero-point energy, over-unity devices and anti-gravity research.

    By reading this document, it is hoped that the astute and open-minded reader will understand that UFOs are real, and move on to thoughtfully address the implications of this reality for our governments and people of this planet.


    [see all 490+ pages at the link]
     
  14. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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  15. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    Fascinated by this stuff since I was a kid, however I cannot divulge how I have access to this googled document...

    The Condon Report

    It's only a thousand pages...so get started.
     
  16. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    3 unknown objects shot down:
    - NORAD enhanced radar to pick up slower moving objects
    - Tracked 3 unidentified objects (AL, Canada, MidWest)
    - Acted within current established parameters
    - Gave order to take them down at recommendation of NORAD due to hazard to civilian air traffic and b/c they couldn't rule out surveillance risk
    - Acted in consultation with Canada, and in taking them down safely
    - Military retrieving debris to learn about them
    - don't yet know exactly what they are
    - Intel community current assessment is they are likely tied to private companies, recreation, or research institution studying weather or conducting other scientific research
    - nothing suggests they are related to China spy balloon program or surveillance from any other countries
    - no evidence there are MORE of these objects today, seeing more b/c of steps taken

    Future steps:
    - direct team to come back with how to distinguish these UIO between those likely to post safety risk vs those that do not
    - will take down any obj that poses a threat to the US
    - will share classified parameters with congress when completed
    - will remain classified so enemy can't evade US defenses
    - going forward, these parameters will guide response to unmanned and unidentified objects
    - will adapt if challenges evolve
    - NSA to lead national wide effort to deal with these safely and effectively
    - will establish better inventory of these objects, be accessible and up to date
    - will improve detection of these objects
    - update rules and regulations for launching and maintaining unmanned object above US airspace
    - SoS to lead effort to establish common global norm in this largely unregulated space


     
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  17. Major

    Major Member

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    Maybe not entirely inaccurate...

    https://aviationweek.com/defense-sp...y-clubs-missing-balloon-feared-shot-down-usaf

    Hobby Club’s Missing Balloon Feared Shot Down By USAF

    A small, globe-trotting balloon declared “missing in action” by an Illinois-based hobbyist club on Feb. 15 has emerged as a candidate to explain one of the three mystery objects shot down by four heat-seeking missiles launched by U.S. Air Force fighters since Feb. 10.

    The club—the Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade (NIBBB)—is not pointing fingers yet.

    But the circumstantial evidence is at least intriguing. The club’s silver-coated, party-style, “pico balloon” reported its last position on Feb. 10 at 38,910 ft. off the west coast of Alaska, and a popular forecasting tool—the HYSPLIT model provided by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)—projected the cylindrically shaped object would be floating high over the central part of the Yukon Territory on Feb. 11. That is the same day a Lockheed Martin F-22 shot down an unidentified object of a similar description and altitude in the same general area.

    There are suspicions among other prominent members of the small, pico-ballooning enthusiasts’ community, which combines ham radio and high-altitude ballooning into a single, relatively affordable hobby.

    ...

    Medlin says he uses a foil balloon sold by Japanese company Yokohama for $12. The material has proven to be resilient for long periods at high altitude, he says, even if the manufacturer never intended the balloon to be used for that purpose. An alternative is Meadows’ SBS, which makes a series of balloons designed specially for circumnavigational flights.
     
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  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    It is looking more like that the objects shot down recently were not threats or extraterrestrial. Shooting them down without ascertaining what they were or how much of a threat they were is looking more like alarmism.

    If the PRC was doing an exercise to see how the US would react this likely shows that they can easily get the country and military to overreact.
     
    #558 rocketsjudoka, Feb 16, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2023
  19. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    When there is something strange, floating at a commercial altitude: who you gonna call? An F22!
     
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  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I ain’t afraid of no balloons
     
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