I'm not a fan of legislation that drives away even your legal residents. But, if we're going to do the right thing, we are going to have to eventually stop exploiting hispanics for picking jobs. So, at least these laws do that. It has caused definite short-term pain, but farmers will adapt their businesses to survive (or sell out to someone who will). Training up a new workforce would take time. This hispanic work force is already experienced in how hard they have to hustle, their bodies are in shape, and they've already figured out how to work most efficiently. If you stick a crew of probationers in the field, they have to climb that curve all over again. At least with a new hispanic worker, they have experienced vets helping them along. They might have to pay more to get workers (or hire more, or work fewer hours, or similar increase to expense). Which would mean the crops would have to be more expensive for us at the grocery store, or the market will be dominated by foreign growers. Foreign competition will mean American growers have to shift to crops that don't import well, or higher-margin crops, or ones that can be harvested mechanically. And, increased mechanization of picking would be necessary. If we can't compete with low wages of foreign workers, we have to invent a machine that can do the work. Here is an old (2007) article on that: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,295965,00.html. Converting the land use on that much farmland to a more profitable business isn't possible on a large scale. We either find a way to drive down the variable cost of farming it, or leave it fallow. Using illegal exploited labor is how we've done it in the past, but we shouldn't have.
spoken like a true paper pusher. i know you worked so hard in college. nobody deserves a middle class life or even a proximaty to it if they didn't study hard in college.
Business needs to adjust then. The resolution should not be EXPLOIT PEOPLE *IN* AMERICA whethere they are illegal or not. I cannot say I dislike slave labor BUT It is ok as long as my strawberries are under 2$/lb *WE* as Americans cannot say that If someone wants to do it on Foreign soil I don't like it but IT IS THEIR DECISION TO MAKE . . not mine But HERE! IN AMERICA!!?? No f***ing way!! If Necessity is the mother of invention . . time to GET AMERICAN and GET INNOVATIVE or pay the people. I always ask . . are we will to give the illegals full benefits [as a full time employee would have - 40 hr work week, benefits, etc] cause that will cause the price of strawberries to jump as well ' Rocket River
yes. If you don't go to college you dont deserve a good life ...that's exactly what I was trying to say. And just to make sure you understand, i'm being sarcastic
To be clear, this is not slave labor (speaking of agriculture). The people are choosing to work these jobs, and they are being paid above minimum wage. While the conditions undoubtably suck, I do believe they generally meet US legal/safety standards.
Exactly. When you don't have a plan when you quit, you end up doing something stupid and die. It's all well and good for Alabama to want to address illegal immigrantion, but they should have thought it through and did this in an orderly fashion and not just scare off all the immigrants at once. Now we got lawsuits, rotting farm products and businesses hurting, and little chance for a reasoned approach. I don't think anyone believes the present "shadow economy" with immigrant workers is perfect, but that's what we need comprehensive immmigration reform, like the one John McCain once proposed, for. The problem is the GOP base would never go for a measured approach. They are more insterested in voicing their distate for dirty Mexicans than they are in actually fixing anything.
I agree. Between jobs after college I worked a manual labor industrial construction job in a chemical plant doing welding and pipe fitting both outside in pipe racks 40 ft up as well as inside the plants. Every day I'd go to work in fire-resistant clothes, hard hat, earplugs, goggles, safety harness, gloves ect at 6 am. Almost sawed a finger off the first day and almost fell numerous times from 30+ feet up. It was intensive work. Needless to say I was the only white guy without a criminal past on the work crew and I gained a healthy appreciation for what the manual labor oriented workers go through on a daily basis to support their families. I've got to say that 6 week experience changed my entire outlook on immigration policy to a much more liberal and humane oriented stance. Perspective is everything in these conversations.
No one is saying illegal immigrants aren't hard workers, but that has nothing to do with it. Taxpayers shouldn't have to bear the cost when it's corporations who benefit the most. A food processing plant will hire an illegal, but if that immigrant winds up in the hospital, we have to pay for their care. Nor would third world immigrants, making minimum wage, ever pay enough in taxes to offset their enormous cost to the government even if they were citizens. In fact, they would probably qualify for more social programs, and the problem would get even worse.
Exactly. The issue is not the IMMIGRANTS themselves It is in the Corporations which employ them. It is almost like a Economic Cheat You say supply and demand sets employee salaries when you can cheat by artificially inflating the number of employees by using illegals. . .then you are cheating the system You don't get to turn around and tell me supply and demand commands the price of the products you make Rocket River
Actually studies have shown that they pay more in taxes than they take out. When that illegal factory worker has taxes taken out of their minimum wage job, they aren't going to file for a tax return. Legal minimum wage workers will. The illegal worker will also never get their SS input back because they won't claim social security. Other workers will. Add to that the sales taxes and everything else illigal immigrants pay. This article talks about it. http://www.good.is/post/undocumented-immigrants-pay-more-in-taxes-than-they-use-in-services/ Here is another study about it. http://www.urban.org/publications/305184.html#V
Good citations. Unfortunately, the right wing's position on the immigration issue is ethnic hostility dressed up as economics. It's not about the actual math, but instead they are just annoyed there are signs in Spanish at the DMV and there are some funny looking people who talk funny.
Likewise, my first job many years ago was a summer job in a unionized factory job on an assembly line. It is hard grueling work and college and office work is a pretty sweet deal compared to that type of work. That job and some other non-professional jobs have influenced my perspective on jobs, pay and unions.
What are tomatoes worth? What will people pay for them? Would hydroponics provide better jobs? Is there a good hydroponic tomato? I buy the cheap ones now. Roma's @99 cents a lb. They aren't as good as home grown. Out in the country, people used to have more tomatoes than they could give away. (covering for Andy Rooney)
