Supreme Ct Decision on Univ of Mich Affirmative Action

That's cool I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement on speech patterns. As a teacher in some of the poorest schools in NY and Los Angeles, I realize that I see extreme cases. I know that many factors affect speech including who people communicate with on a regular basis, and the type of communication used. That particular statement was taken directly from the training materials from the African-American, Linguistic scholars who were teaching the program. It wasn't the use of the 'to be' verb in that particular sentence that was important, just the use of it in general, and how not only that word, but other misinterpretations which can be detrimental to student's learning.

 

Very interesting thread!

Just as a side note. It seems that there are alot of passionate people about this subject. I would like to throw you a curve ball on this matter.

1) Which ethnic segment is the LEAST favorably preferred upon the eyes of academic institutions? (to avoid outliers, this argument will pertain to Top business schools, med schools etc.)





Ans. Asians (Indian, Orientals)


Kind of suprising isn't it?


Reason being is that schools consider Asians to be "OVER-REPRESENTED MINORITIES". Meaning, Asians constitute approximately 7% of the US population but hold approximately a 17% at top schools (Harvard Business School, Harvard Law, Yale, Stanford etc.)

For the record, I attend Kellogg School of Management (Northwestern) ranked #1 on Business Week and have taught both Kaplan SAT and GMAT so you can say I dabbled a bit in academia in some sense.

So for those of you out there who complain, at least you dont fall in this group. If you think about it, it's kinda funny. Asians do not get any benefits deemed to "minorities" (in admissions) and Asians are generally immigrants and for the most part do not qualify for legacy benefits.


P.S. Before I get a bunch of outlier examples, NOTE that this pertains only to TOP schools. I think the asian population is pretty close to the 7% national population for 3rd tier type schools etc.

 

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State where they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Sidebar legal question... Under this provision, what is the difference between these two laws:

(1) You cannot drive if you're under 16.

(2) You cannot drive if you're black.

I guess #2 would be made illegal by other constitutional provisions, but it almost seems like the way that amendment reads, law #1 would be illegal too.

 

Poor, poor white people.

Mrs JB,

The female dominance in school is not as bad as it seems since all those boys/men doing worse in school still get better jobs and higher salaries than the girls/women doing better.

 

I was not making an argument, just feeling sorry for whitey. Besides, what you described has happened for the majority of our country's hstory, it is not as if AA advocates invented race consideration.

Besides, I do not think AA is a solution (in a perfect world). I think that education needs to be completely revamped in this country, which would include putting billions of dollars into all schools so that everyone can go to a good one, not just rich white kids.

Just like my abortion solution, it would not be popular, as it would require us to actually work on it.

 

hikanoo49,

You beat me to that. 1st generation immigrant Asians have the same language and cultural problems as 1st generation immigrant Hispanics. But they don't get preferential affirmative treatment to level the field. Asians have the same skin color/physical features problems as blacks. (Yes, they get racial ridicules and get bullied by big white boys in school yards too.) But they don't get preferential affirmative treatment to level the field.

Two reasons:

1. Asians don't have political clout.

2. As k49 said, Asians are "overrepresented" in top flight schools. The question is: Why are there so many Asians in these schools, if they have the same disadvantages as hispanics and blacks?

 

Yes, this was the point I was making in my post yesterday. I wonder if people are really willing to spend the billions needed to revamp our educational system. AA is nothing but an easy and inexpensive way to create diversity on our college campuses.

 

Easy, good question, and I hope people respond. My guess is that most people would argue that Asians and blacks <i>don't</i> have the same disadvantages, and that blacks actually have it much harder. I can think of two possible reasons:

1. Asians, percentage-wise, are better off financially than blacks as a whole; meaning they can afford better schools, etc. Of course, then the question has to be asked as to whether that has always been the case, or whether Asians have managed to break out of the lower class over time. Another thing to consider is how many Asians moved to America while already being in good financial standing. That would be another advantage.

2. It's a cultural thing, and Asian parents are more strict when it comes to their children's education.

I'd guess it's probably a combination of the two.

 

2. As k49 said, Asians are "overrepresented" in top flight schools. The question is: Why are there so many Asians in these schools, if they have the same disadvantages as hispanics and blacks?


Asians don't tend to be stuck in the inner-cities as much and as such get better lower-level educations. Those that do live in the inner-cities are probably not the ones going to the top schools for the most part.

Similarly, the black/hispanic students that are making it to the top schools are probably the few that are able to be raised outside of the inner-cities.

 

From my understanding (which might not be right), the typical Asian immigrant comes to this country with some financial stability and education, which is far different than coming here via slavery (for blacks) or dirt poor (mexican immigrants). Typically speaking, if your parents are educated, your chances of being the same are higher. I think someone else mentioned how it takes a few generations to correct things.

Now does anyone have the answer on this one? I would like to learn.

 

Sorry, but that’s not true.

 

How do you know it's not true. Do you have any facts to back that up. Have you done research on this subject, or is this just an opinion. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your statement, I just want to know if it was based on something.

 

No, I haven't done any research, so I guess my statement is just from personal experience.

I am from the inner city, and I attended a HBCU and two perdominately white colleges. I currently work in Corporate America. Of all the brothers that I know that have "made it", there were just as many from the hood (like me) as there were from the suburbs. I know a lot of brothers that have "made it".

So I guess it would be my opinion, but I'll stick with it.

And I was speaking on the black students.....

 

Ice:

Read you last post. Then read your assumption about the Asian immigrant. You've made the same leap in logic as Rip.

I know many Asian's who immigrated with nothing. Many whose families were not educated. Many who's parents worked as cooks, cleaners, and other 'lower level' jobs while pushing their kids to excel. Many who's parents still struggle with English.

There are also many who came with money, education and privilege.

It's always more complex then it seems.

 

I'm sorry, maybe I'm a little slow, but what leap in logic did I make.

 

Sorry Rip.

I was referring to Major's comment about Black's at the top schools being raised outside of inner cities.

Thought that was you, but it wasn't