I've been skimming this thread but wanted to make a few observations. The first is in regard to arguing we need handguns to protect against government tyranny, particulary to Weslinder's example of various tyrannical states that disarmed its populace. Consider what happened to the MOVE Group in the 1980's or the Branch Davidians. Handguns aren't going to protect you if the government does decide to come after you. The next observation is that there have been a lot of comparisons between guns and pools and cars. Consider though that pools and cars are also heavily regulated including in regard to who can use them, what types you can have, they are taxed and it is also fairly easy to deny someone the right to use them. If giving guns the same amount of regulation as pools and cars I'm sure gun control advocates will take that any day as that would mean that a city planning board could remove access to guns.
Japan's murder rate is 1/8 of the US. However, I am not sure if it can be attributed to lack of guns or just culture.
Considering their much higher suicide rate I would go with culture and lack of specific social problems.
I can buy a car and only pay sales tax then drive it on my own land however I want to or how fast I want to without registering it to anyone. I can also build a car however I want and make it the most gasoline eating beast ever and the .gov won;t care unless I drive it on the roads that taxpayers paid for. If I choose to do that then I have to follow the rules. I would accept the same regulations if I shoot my guns at a .gov funded gun range.
That doesn't apply to all states or even municipalities. Some states regulate what sort of motor vehicles can be driven by people based on age even if it is on private property and still require registration. Not true. Even if you run your car on private property it could still be subject to pollution rules if you've built in in such a way as to be a health hazard or nuisance. IN regard to pools private pools are still subject to regulation even more so given the recent case of the little girl who got injured, unfortunately fatally, in a Minnesota pool at a private country club. If you are willing to accept universal registration, licensing subject to performance test, and a very short leash in regard to keeping that license then I'm sure that most gun control advocates would be willing to accommodate you.
Thank you for asking me that. I think it answers the assumption of a couple of posts to me. No, I'm not suggesting that all guns should be owned by the US government. I'm not saying I want the 2nd Amendment gone. I'm saying I likely wouldn't interpret it as broadly as many do.
The difference is, kiddie pools are more dangerous than bb guns, because you children can drown in a few inches of water. Air powered rifles are responsible for only 4 deaths per year nationwide.
I didn't think that you were saying that you wanted all guns in the hands of govt. I felt the need to clarify though. I think that the right to bear arms is a tricky subject. You want to do what is necessary to have the fewest gun deaths possible while not unduly modifying one of the amendments contained in the Bill of Rights. It is a difficult balance.
Where are all the strict Constitutionalists on the 2nd Amendment? Let's get some militias going here...
And what are the numbers of kiddie pools to air powered guns? If you're going to engage in that sort of comparison I'm willing to bet that more people die from eating bread than eating cyanide anually. Anyway if you're willing to put guns, including air rifles, on par in terms of rights and regulations with swimming pools of all sorts that is again a deal that gun control advocates are willing to take.
I don't know how accurate this is but if it's true, this should automatically outlaw gun ownership for all women and for all men over the age of 45, take that Dick Cheney. Also, certainly this reserve militia must have standards for training/readiness and physical fitness as well as a chain of command and since these things obviously don't exist that pretty much invalidates the whole reserve militia concept as it pertains to the original wording of a well regulated militia in the 2nd Amendment. Considering Scalia and his empty bottle argument of Constitutional law he would have to consider the original intent of the 2nd Amendment and outlaw private gun ownership as it's clear that well regulated militias no longer exist other than in the form of the National Guard. The National Guard is the well regulated militia.
Militia is only one purpose. Also you will find it was not that small amount of people that were actually in the militia in the Rev. War.
Ahh, guns. My observation is handguns should be protected as much as longguns (rifles and shotguns)... No handgun is considered a primary defense weapon, it's a secondary weapon and more suitable in tight confines, furthermore the "weakest" centerfire rifle is more powerful than most of the "powerful" handguns... For example, the smallish .223 rifle round has more power than the .44 magnum pistol...However, the handgun does have it's place as a secondary option and backup...and is still lethal... The best rifle for civilians to own for defense is still the AR15.
Not a bad post except your facts, that are totally wrong. .44 Mag 240gr HP at 1760 fps = 1650ME .223 Rem. 55gr at 3240 fps = 1282ME .454 Casull 240gr Muzzle 1800fps 1871ME .500 S&W 350gr Muzzle 1400fps 1523ME Not to mention the hunting advantage of a bullet diameter of over 200% bigger. I do agree about the ARFteen being the best.
My facts are totally right... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44_Magnum .233.... 55 gr (3.6 g) Nosler ballistic tip 3,240 ft/s (990 m/s) 1,282 ft·lbf (1,738 J) 60 gr (3.9 g) Nosler partition 3,160 ft/s (960 m/s) 1,330 ft·lbf (1,800 J) 69 gr (4.5 g) BTHP 2,950 ft/s (900 m/s) 1,333 ft·lbf (1,807 J) 77 gr (5.0 g) BTHP 2,750 ft/s (840 m/s) 1,293 ft·lbf (1,753 J versus... .44 magnum.... 180 gr (12 g) JSP 1,610 ft/s (490 m/s) 1,036 ft·lbf (1,405 J) 240 gr (16 g) SP 1,180 ft/s (360 m/s) 741 ft·lbf (1,005 J) 240 gr (16 g) JHP 1,542 ft/s (470 m/s) 1,267 ft·lbf (1,718 J) The result?...The .223 in 4 loads has more foot pounds of energy than any loading in .44 magnum listed... Add the effect of dramatic fragmentation above 2700 feet per second, and the results add to the power advantage...
