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Supervillains Gather in Davos

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, May 25, 2022.

  1. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I get the argument. What I don't understand is -- assuming you're American -- why you think it would be good that a foreign adversary can throw off the rules our own country applies to the world order. I know you said the 'Davos crowd' are evil or whatever and cause suffering internationally. But you're inviting the impoverishment and marginalization of Americans. Are you not a traitor to your own country? And aren't you asking me to celebrate the defeat of my own self-interest?
     
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  2. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    You conflate the interests of the WEF and their agenda with America and its place and role in the world. That is flatly false. These people are working to destroy America in any traditional sense and to subject it to their megalomaniacal scheme for a unipolar, one world government, led and dominated by them. That is not in either the interests of America, or of the humanity as a whole.

    If anyone here is a traitor to their own country, or to take it further to the human race, it is the people who support this depraved and severely misguided agenda, such as yourself.

    You people do not get to play the patriotism card and have it taken seriously. Likewise, your ad hominem name calling along these lines is just a projection of your own tendencies, as is your routine, common practice.
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    support politicians who want to reverse the Citizens United Ruling.

    Oh wait, you call those type of politicians commies.
     
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  4. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    I do find it precious to worship russian leadership while decrying rich oligarchs. Clearly Mojo has fallen for the Putin propaganda that Russia is some glorious all-white theocracy fighting against a decadent West.
     
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  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    He can move to Russia if he wants.
     
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  6. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    LOL oh wise one, enlighten us with the evil plans of the WEF and what this unipolar one world government will look like. Or why they'd want to do it for that matter. If anything, rich people want less international cooperation. Much easier to pay less taxes and bribe government officials if you can buy a golden passport and abscond to Malta or Bermuda.
     
  7. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I'm still not really getting it. So, over Ukraine, Biden is engaging in this conflict with Russia because he's trying to make them play by these Davos Rules and Russia says they instead want to play by their own rules. So, you want Russia to succeed at defying America's demands, conquer Ukraine, and establish a commodity-based international economic system written by Russia where they can become rich and powerful with oil sales. Am I okay so far? And for the good WEF-hating Americans, that's good because it will be a blow against Biden and all his Davos buddies that want to make us become vegetarians, not own anything, and have all our actions and movements tracked and digitized for their exploitation. And maybe these blows against the globalists will become so severe that their hold on power will crumble and the good, WEF-hating Americans can regain control of their own country again and live in freedom. Is that the argument, more or less?
     
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  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    A multi-polar world is what is wanted for humanity here at this time. I do not expect other countries to take orders from the US, or the UN, or any other cabal of self anointed world rulers. We need competition between nations, and I for one would like to see literally all of them and their people succeed. That includes Russia. Your expression of alarm that they would not submit to being dominated by us, or more correctly in this case the North Atlantic globalist elites who imagine themselves to be the world's geopolitical dictators and rulemakers (but not followers of their own rules) just further confirms that this is how you would like to see this all work.

    As far as your second paragraph, it would be good for all of humanity if these people were given the Louis and Marie Antoinette treatment. The seem to be all but daring the masses to rise up and deliver such a response. But it may come to pass, if people in countries like ours, and also other countries like Russia stand up and operate free of these people's demands and dictates, that they will just fail, which looks like a reasonably likely outcome at this point. So, let's hope for that.
     
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  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member
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    Thanks for the compliment and for taking the time to expand your thoughts and opinions.

    1) Or maybe it seemed chaotic and slow because America and its allies were successful at slowing their progress? The SCO has been around since 96. Russia, China, and Iran have been good buddies. I didn't know India joined, but Pakistan looks like they fit in just nicely.

    I don't think it's epic mishandling of any one thing or party, more like America's power waning over time. I guess you could say America feeding and enabling China since Clinton was an epic blunder that Trump finally called out in the open. China has been the Davos Elites' destination for offshoring most of their manufacturing capacity and parking investment that would otherwise be spent domestically. With all that's going on with China loving and profiting off the current world order (just not America's moral nagging and preachiness), I still see opposing America's will as natural and removed from Davos or a group of Elite shadowbrokers. Ray Dalio has been referencing the Thucydides Trap with China frequently. Billionaires like him just want to make money, and have thought over the past 3 decades that free trade w/ China is win win for everyone (but mostly for people like him).

    2) I'm not sure if that's a big deal in the long run. If Russia's people and economy becomes stillborn like Saddam's Iraq, but "beats" the sanctions, does that really hurt the West's control? They will lose a bit of face (oh no!! street cred!!), and maybe it can play a part in a larger sequence of events. It's just premature to call it a victory for Russia. OPEC is still menacing, but they stopped swinging their dicks around like they did in the 70s.

    3) It's bit of a chicken or the egg problem, did Russia's move weaken the World Order...or was America's power weakened in the first place to be affected by this? I'm not too worried about Russia's new system either. An apt analogy for this would be like them creating their own Parler so they can post White Supremacist memes, dunk or bully on their neighbors, and pretend they have nothing to do with Facebook or Twitter while bragging that they're mondo cooler than Facebook AND Twiiter. I hate Facebook/Twitter, but if you want to broadcast a message online with the broadest penetration, then you'll have to go through them in some form.

    To be frank, the 0.1% are robber barons, kleptocrats, and oligarchs. They've captured Washington with their dollars and special interest groups and are sucking us dry while they send their profits to offshore tax havens. The American people probably won't even start getting that wealth and prosperity back for another generation or two. We won't be paying off that 20-30T pricetag any time soon. Russia plus allies breaking the World Order likely won't speed up that "cleansing cycle" on the home front, and it's likely bloodier and messier.

    But I'm saying that's a different problem. Russia's Independence doesn't solve any of that. If anything, I've read accounts of Putin wanting to belong with the Cool Kids. So don't expect him to break a system where the common people have to liberate themselves from.
     
    #89 Invisible Fan, Jun 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2022
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  10. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Thanks for confirming my understanding of what you're saying. So we understand each other, yes, the current world order is what I'd like to preserve as long as possible into the future. I don't think your analysis (and therefore conclusions) is right, but time will tell. But I can see for now we're hopelessly opposed to one another politically. It's small wonder we can't agree on anything else either.
     
  11. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    @MojoMan you've benefitted from a US won global order more than you realize.

    A multi-polar world just means a lot more war, and a lot more young people dying.

    You don't have a ****ing clue as to how the world works. The military wpuld reject your sorry ass prepper bullshit.
     
  12. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    You want to reject it? Fly to Afghanistan or Somalia. There's day camps for people like you to learn how to fight jihad...or go to Montana and fight the race war...
     
  13. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    That is a good post. There is a lot in there and it is very thoughtfully put together. Broadly speaking, I think I agree with most of it and with the general direction of it.

    A couple of important differences. First, Russia is not breaking the "rules based world order". They are establishing that it does not actually exist that the way the Davos crowd imagines that it does, or at least should, and in fact it never did. We have always lived in a multi-polar world going back to before recorded history, some 4,000+ years ago. That has not changed, not at the time of the fall of the Soviet Union, or the establishment of the EU, or election of Barack Obama, or of the announcement of the "Great Reset" but the WEF and the related world leaders.

    The confident assertion that we are now in a period "post history" is real lunatic stuff. We are not. History is ongoing, just like always, and nations are the fundamental building blocks of the international order, again, just like always. The globalist/WEF imaginations of a borderless world and the elimination of nations is just a figment of their imaginations, as the actions of Russia, and China and many others have demonstrated through their lack of cooperation with and their economic adaptations to the shrill demands of the self-imagined leaders of the supposed "rules based world order" in this instance.

    Your point about Russia (and China, India, etc.) establishing a new system as comparable to a new social media platform to rival Twitter of Facebook is well taken. That is what it basically is, an alternative system, not a (imaginary) uni-polar replacement system. I have always thought it a bit odd that for China or India to buy oil from Russia or Saudi Arabia, they have to conduct those transactions in dollars. Why? Well, it is not necessary and it makes sense for all of these other nations to stand up a system that allows them to trade directly between their nations in their own currencies.

    Competition between the US and every other nation is normal and natural. That all of these other nations are trying to advance and strengthen themselves, independent of us, is normal and natural. Of course they are. We are still trying to advance ourselves (at least some of us are) even though we are competitively at the top position in the league tables. So, none of that should come as any surprise. It is just the way we behave as human beings. What is odd it the expectation by this elitist, insular group that the nations of the world should be expected to subordinate themselves to this aristocratic group and its domination, thereby ending this ongoing competition. It is this last group that we should all be most alarmed by, not these other countries that are all out seeking to advance their own interests in all the historically traditional ways.

    And that of course is what this thread is focused on.
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    It is not just the Biden regime that is facing humiliation in Ukraine. It is more broadly the Davos led, North Atantic globalist elites. And as discussed earlier, the ramifications are geopolitically substantial and profound. These people really have bungled this very badly indeed.

    Biden Admin Facing Strategic Humiliation in Ukraine

    The precipitous and chaotic American abandonment of Afghanistan, without proper consultation and support for allies, less than a year ago was a great shock to the NATO alliance, raising grave doubts about the judgment, stability and reliability of the U.S. as leader of the free world. The resulting cracks in the alliance were only papered over by the blunt truth that our allies had nowhere to go outside the security umbrella provided by the U.S. under Article 5.

    Now, in the rapidly changing landscape of the Ukraine war, we are seeing ominous signs that the U.S. may be leading NATO in the direction of an even worse strategic humiliation — one that can result in a dramatic reconfiguration of the world’s geopolitical structure.

    The New York Times reported recently on a June 16 visit to Kyiv by leaders of four NATO countries — France, Germany, Italy and Romania — during which they delivered a dual message to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. At the more public and cosmetic level, the Western leaders demonstrated their support against Russian aggression by offering Ukraine a path to European Union membership but they “did not promise the country additional heavy weapons on the scale it says it needs to repel a bloody Russian advance in the East.”

    The European leaders carefully adhered to the Biden administration’s policy by insisting “they were not pressing Mr. Zelensky to accept a peace deal with Moscow,” according to the Times. But, as reflected in the palpable disappointment of the Ukrainians, the EU’s key leaders were clearly signaling the limits of their own support.

    This new European stance now places the Biden administration on the horns of a possibly insoluble dilemma, as David Goldman reported in a recent Asia Times article. With the war having reached a critical stage and the world economy reeling from supply shocks in energy and food previously supplied by Russia and Ukraine, Goldman asserts that America’s boasts of “driving Putin from power, destroying Russia’s capacity to make war, and halving the size of Russia’s economy look ridiculous in retrospect.”

    China has departed from its early public neutrality regarding the war by reaffirming its partnership with Russia and effectively calling for a compromise peace — as have others, including, evidently, our European allies. The pressure is mounting on President Biden, who until now has brooked no dissent from Ukraine’s demand for the full restoration of its pre-2014 borders.

    A slippery slope filled with a series of bad choices awaits the Biden administration. A compromise peace, which much of the world apparently desires for various self-interested reasons, inevitably would begin with negotiations. Unless Russia is allowed to continue its territorial gains during the negotiations, a ceasefire would be required — and historically, these involve freezing the existing territorial division between combatants for the duration. As we have learned from Korea, the Middle East, and other such arrangements, these temporary demarcation lines often evolve into de facto permanent borders.

    Russia has made strategic territorial gains, so such an outcome would be disastrous for Ukraine — and humiliating for the United States. Yet, since European leaders and the U.S. so far have refused to supply the arsenal of modern weaponry that Ukraine has said it needs to survive, it is difficult to see any other scenario unfolding.

    At the beginning of this tragic conflict, a combination of blunders by Russian troops and heroic resistance by Ukrainian fighters promoted the conventional wisdom that Russian President Vladimir Putin had gravely miscalculated and inevitably would be the big loser. The West indulged itself in this expectation of the war’s outcome. Now, faced with the reality of a looming world recession and a spiraling strategic crisis, the agenda for President Biden and our NATO allies has gone from expectations of military victory to hopes for political survival.

    The consequences of this momentous transformation will ripple far and wide for years to come.
     
  15. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The WEF and the Davos crowd are obsessed with "climate change" as their justification for choking the life out of the energy sector. Another massive fail.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    LOL so its not humilating for the so-called other superpower to get beat by a bunch of wheat farmers?
     
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  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The Ukrainians, you mean?

    First, Russia is not a superpower, they are a regional power.

    Second, it would be a humiliation for Russia if they were militarily defeated by Ukraine, but that has not happened and it appears extremely likely that it will not happen.
     
  18. TheJuice

    TheJuice Member

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    Are you a freshman who just read Mearsheimer or something?

    Id argue this is incredibly humilating and also is going to ruin Russia's positioning. They couldnt take Kiev, have only marginally advanced near Donetsk, and unified a previously fractured EU.

    Kaliningrad is now blockaded. Previously neutral countries want to join NATO. Caucus/former USSR countries are freaking out (now would be a great time for the US to step in and mediate Nagano-Karbakh through our significant ties to both...neither trust Russian peacekeepers and Azerbaijan is oil rich).
     
  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The WEF/NATO cabal is apparently trying to provoke Russia into a direct military conflict with Europe. They actually have, by all appearances, been trying to do this in Ukraine for some time. But now they have taken this conflict outside of Ukraine, and have escalated the hostilities considerably by Lithuania's effective blockade of the Russian enclave of Khalingrad:

    [​IMG]

    Moscow and NATO could be about to clash over Russia’s European exclave Kaliningrad

    A new front in tensions between Russia and NATO has opened up after one of the Western military alliance’s members, Lithuania, banned the transit of some goods coming from Russia to its exclave Kaliningrad on the Baltic Sea. Russia has vowed to retaliate over what it described as the “hostile actions” of Lithuania, warning of “serious” consequences, while NATO members have reiterated their support for the country.

    Lithuania said last week that it would ban the transit of some EU-sanctioned goods coming from Russia across its territory to the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad. The government said the blockade would apply to all EU-sanctioned goods coming from the mainland via rail, effectively blocking the transit of metals, coal, construction materials and high-technology products to the Russian sea port.

    Russia responded to Lithuania, a former Soviet republic, by calling the move an “unprecedented” and “hostile” act, with its Foreign Ministry issuing a statement Tuesday in which it said “if in the near future cargo transit between the Kaliningrad region and the rest of the territory of the Russian Federation through Lithuania is not restored in full, then Russia reserves the right to take actions to protect its national interests.”

    Josep Borrell, the EU’s foreign policy chief, also backed Lithuania on Monday, saying he was worried about what form the retaliation might take while he defended Vilnius’ position. “Certainly I am always worried about the Russian retaliations,” Borrell said, but he insisted there was no “blockade.”​

    The Davos crowd is apparently anticipating a military response in retaliation for this coordinated and planned provocation by the Europeans, as the text of the article linked above makes clear:

    Timothy Ash, senior sovereign strategist at BlueBay Asset Management, commented Tuesday that “it’s fair to say that Kaliningrad is a strategic imperative for Russia” noting that defending and sustaining it certainly is. “Russia will react for sure, the only question is what that will be ... [and] what Russia could do militarily,” he noted. “A land attack to drive a corridor through Lithuania would be a direct attack on Lithuania triggering NATO Article 5 defence. Putin knows this - that’s war with NATO. Can Putin afford that when he is struggling to deliver on even his now much-reduced strategic objectives in Ukraine? He would also have to launch an assault through Belarus, stretching his supply lines, and splitting his forces,” he noted.

    Ash suggested that Russia could seek to use its sizeable naval assets in the Baltic Sea to enforce some kind of tit-for-tat blockade on Lithuanian trade although again that would be seen as a huge escalation by both NATO and the EU. “It would then be a fine dividing line whether that would trigger the NATO Article 5 defence,” however, he noted.

    When asked on Wednesday whether Russia’s response would be exclusively diplomatic or would go further, Russia’s Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Maria Zakharova, said “the answer is no. They will not be diplomatic, but practical.”

    “As for retaliatory measures, now possible measures are being worked out in an interdepartmental format. It was stated to both Lithuania and the EU through their diplomatic missions in Moscow about the inadmissibility of such actions and the need to change the steps taken and return the situation to a legitimate course,” she said.

    “If this is not done, then, of course, and this was emphasized at all levels in Moscow, retaliatory actions will be inevitable.”​

    Genius! Has the WEF figured out a way to trigger WWIII and save their aspirational dream of a "rules based international order," dictated and dominated by them, of course, thereby flipping the script and putting themselves in the driver's seat?

    Stay tuned.....
     
  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Oh, Darn. The Russians are not r****ded after all and appear to have outsmarted the midwits who constitute the North Atlantic globalist elites, yet again.

    Russia chokes gas flow, Germans fear ‘Lehman Moment’
    Politicians tremble at prediction of a boost in the typical German household’s heating bill by $2,772 a year

    Russia has cut the flow of gas via the Nord Stream 1 pipeline to 40% of capacity, prompting a warning of a “Lehman Moment” in Europe’s energy market – a reference to the September 2008 bankruptcy that triggered a global financial crisis.

    Russia’s June 22 action came two days after Lithuania blocked rail deliveries of sanctioned goods to Russia’s Baltic Sea enclave of Kaliningrad, citing European sanctions on the transshipment of Russian shipments of coal, metals, electronics, construction materials and other goods.

    The prospect of a “Lehman Moment” for Europe isn’t metaphorical. Last week the world’s largest hedge fund, Ray Dalio’s Bridgewater Associates, doubled its short position on European stocks to $10.5 billion. The Markit Purchasing Managers’ Index for Germany released June 23 showed a sharp contraction in new manufacturing orders, at an index level of 42.2. (A level of 50 indicates no change.)

    The price of natural gas at Netherlands terminals spiked to levels not seen since late February when Russia invaded Ukraine. German electricity futures rose to the highest level since December.
    [​IMG]

    Economic consequences for Germany will be dire this coming winter unless gas flows resume, German Energy Minister Robert Habeck warned on Thursday, comparing the energy predicament to the 2008 crisis. Gas rationing would cut deeply into German industrial production, Habeck warned, and eventually cut household consumption. European utilities have fixed-price contracts to provide gas to industrial consumers and households, Habeck explained. If their costs suddenly jump because of a severe shortage, a chain of bankruptcies could hit the energy sector in a Lehman-style crisis.

    A calculation by the German center-right daily Die Welt predicts a boost in the heating bill for a typical German household by EUR 2,640 (US $2,772) a year compared with 2020. “That will be more than many Germans can pay,” the newspaper wrote, noting that “4.4% of German households are classified as materially deprived, and a third of households have financial reserves for only a few weeks of consumption.”

    It’s not surprising that Russia’s apparent retaliation for the Lithuanian sanctions hit Germany. Lithuania’s foreign minister June 22 said that the blockade of Russian rail freight fell under European Community sanctions that took effect June 17, and that his country had acted in consultation with the European Commission in Brussels. Russia denounced the blockade as a violation of international agreements about the status of Kaliningrad.

    Apparently, Moscow has decided to step on the sorest toe it could find.

    German support for the Ukraine war is shaky. Opinion polling shows the Germans evenly split on the issue of Ukraine’s prospective membership in the European Union with 35% each supporting and opposing it and the remainder undecided. Moscow has raised no objection to Ukrainian membership in the EU, which has no military role. German antipathy to Ukrainian membership stems from an aversion to subsidies for poorer EU members.

    More members of German Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s Social Democratic Party oppose sending heavy weapons to Ukraine than support it, according to an April 28 poll. Overall, Germans are split 45%-45% on the question, with 10% undecided. At the beginning of April, an identical poll found 55% of Germans in favor of shipping heavy weapons to Ukraine. Soaring energy and food prices and an overall 7.9% annual inflation rate explain the difference. Only 23% of Germans believe that a military victory is possible against Russia, according to a June 7 poll, while 70% believe a negotiated solution will be necessary. A cold winter with hardship for millions of German households would undermine Scholz’s already-shaky coalition. On May 15, his party suffered its worst electoral defeat since 1947 in its stronghold state of North Rhein-Westphalia, ceding leadership of the state government to the Christian Democrats.

    Last Sunday’s parliamentary elections in France, meanwhile, left President Emmanuel Macron’s coalition in a minority, after gains by Marine Le Pen’s National Front and Jean-Luc Mélenchon’s left-wing alliance.Both the French right and left oppose the Ukraine war. Political support for the Ukraine war and for the European leaders who made common cause with Kiev and Washington is eroding rapidly, and worsening economic conditions may undermine Scholz’s and Macron’s positions.


    Drats. Foiled again. And it only took Russia two days to plan and implement it. Please note that the Russians have not completely cut off the gas, just reduced the flow in one pipeline down to 40%, which is not going to be enough for the Germans, who appear to be broadly opposed to picking this fight with the Russians. So the Russians can still make this worse for the Germans and the EU, if the Europeans are tempted to try to act out any further.

    The attempts by the Europeans to provoke Russia into a direct military conflict has failed, yet again. And this response will certainly be more effective and less messy. This WEF coordinated crew just keeps piling up one spectacular failure after another. This is just the latest to be added to the list.

    This could actually be the move that causes the Europeans to capitulate on this conflict. They are getting their asses kicked like a nerd being bullied outside the girls locker room in junior high. As discussed in the article above, both the politics and the practical implications of this are devastating for the prospects of continued European resolve on this. It looks like if WWIII is going to get started here, we are actually going to have to go all in and be the ones to start it.

    I sure hope that does not happen, as that would be truly horrible. Can we at least agree about this?

    But if we do not start WWII here, then the WEF crowd is going to have to abandon their imaginary fantasies about a unipolar "rules based international order" with them in charge. And that is clearly something that they do not want to do. Even at the cost of WWIII? really?
     
    #100 MojoMan, Jun 24, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022

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