Suns Gel, Could be big matchup problem for Rockets

Exactly.


1 step forward. 2 steps back.

They ARE better equipped to win that 2nd or 3rd round matchup against the Spurs. Trouble is they might not be able to get there because of their earlier matchups.


Imagine the Rockets making the deal for Barkley to help beat the Sonics only to run into the Jazz the round before the Sonics.

 

the rockets managed to beat sa by controlling TP(hee hee, tp). looks like the suns used the same strategy.

 

The Suns can also run close to their old style with Amare as the 5 and Diaw at the 4. The new Suns team can play both half court/power (Shaq and Amare at the 5/4) or uptempo and movement (Amare and Diaw). So I would say they gained a lot in better matching up the power teams, and lost a little (but not a ton) in playing the old style when they want to.

I think the Shaq/Amare/Hill frontline is better for matching up with SA and Utah for sure. Probably better versus the Lakers too (not like Marion played Kobe--it was always Bell's job). GS, Dallas, Houston--I think losing Marion probably hurts there.

 

When it first happened, most (non-Suns) fans blasted the trade while the media praised it. It's only recently that their poor record has forced the media to pile on and agree it was a bad idea.

The key for the Suns is the play of Barbosa and Diaw. IMO, Bell is more consistent and predictable than either guy. If Diaw plays with heart like he cares about what happens, on offense he has the ability to make up the difference for Marion being gone. Barbosa has been terrible most games I've seen him this year. If he doesn't get his act going the Suns are toast.

I stand by my earlier statement that Shaq cannot consistently produce what he did yesterday. If the Suns are to succeed, Diaw and Barbosa will have to bring their "A" games because Shaq's "A" game won't show up more than once a week.

 

Without Marion, Suns' running game is not the same. Diaw is so far below Marion.

They are not better for matching up with Utah. If the Rockets frontline couldn't contain them last year, how can Suns'? To defend Utah, you need two mobile big men. Boozer is too quick for Shaq. And I can bet my life Shaq is not going to go out to the 3pt line to guard Okur.

The only team they are a better match up with Shaq is the Spurs. But like many have said, they might not even get to face the Spurs before they get eliminated by some other team.

 

I agree with most of what you said.

One of the key aspects of the Marion trade is more PT and role for Diaw. If he plays more like what he did in 05-06, he gives them a good role player. He isn't near the player Marion is, but in some ways offensively he can be better for them.

Barbosa hasn't been the same player since the SA series last year. Not sure if Pop and co found weaknesses now others have picked up on, or just a confidence thing. I think it in part has to be a lot a confidence issue because his 3 point shooting has dropped from 44% the previous 2 years to 38.5 this year. Normally 25 year olds should only shoot better. They need him to pick up back to near all-star/6th man of the league caliber to make a run.

I do however disagree some on Bell. He hasn't been playing the defense or shooting off the ball like he is capable. I think Phx needs him and Giricek to give them better spot up shooting, and perhaps Giricek can give him some rest so he can be fresher on the D end. Giricek hasn't been playing well though, yet to be seen with another 2-3 weeks of conditioning and playing with them if he can be a real contributer or not.

Overall if Barbosa, Diaw and Giricek play better it means they can be more moderate in PT for Shaq, Hill, Bell and Nash.

 

Diaw is a worse player, and worse rebounder and defender, sure. But Diaw is a lot smarter with the ball, handles better, and has better court sense--so he does do some things better than Marion. Diaw was very important to the Suns making it to the WCF final in 05-06 and with Marion gone he can get those minutes at PF where Diaw is best. So a side benefit of the trade might be getting some production out of Diaw vs him really not finding a role before.

So I am not saying they can run equally as well as before, but they still have the option to go smaller, more uptempo, when they need to try to change the pace. Flexibility in styles is good.

I disagree on Utah for sure. Shaq is one of the few players Boozer isn't stronger than. And Shaq can force Boozer or Okur to foul him and expend a lot of energy on. Before, Boozer is simple manhandled Marion or Amare--he was way too strong in his lower body for either. Now it is true the other day in a very hard close game Okur hurt them down the stretch, but that was lack of communication as much as anything. Any decent coach would work that out in a playoff series and make sure Okur is never one you rotate off of or provide double help off of.

Phx biggest problem with Utah, like most peoples, is Deron Williams. The Marion trade is irrelevant on this. Nash, Bell, Barbosa and maybe Giricek are just going to have to take turns getting punished by him and collectively make him work as much as possible.

 

My thoughts exactly. The Suns beat the SAS and they are proclaimed to have "gelled." The Shaq trade has been validated.

Meanwhile, HOU has an 18 game streak that doesn't count for much. BTW, if you go back a bit farther, we are 22 and 1, beginning with a victory over the Spurs. I wonder what kind of press PHX would get if they had a stretch like that no? HMMM?

 

I think pre-trade they were overmatched vs new look Lakers as well. The Lakers perimeter defense is pretty strong, a diminished version of the old style Suns was not going to beat them.

But now, offensively Shaq and Amare in the 5 and 4 spots potentially could slice and dice the Lakers interior, getting easy points and draw lots of fouls. Defensively the pair also gives them a much better chance to slow the Lakers interior offense via Gasol, Bynum, etc.

So I would say post trade the Suns have a better chance versus SA, Utah and LA, probably a harder time versus GS (super up temp) and Hou (Marion used to kill us), and juries out on the rest (Den, NO). Dallas I would have said a harder time because Marion was so good to have on Dirk, but I doubt the Mavs like the idea of having to have Dirk guard Amare or Shaq. Further, the Mavs interior is weaker w/o Diop. Dallas's interior D, like the Lakers, look particularly vulnearable to a Shaq/Amare middle.

 

I think you mean jell.

 

Allow me to clarify on Bell: I think he is in decline and isn't capable of being the same player he used to be. This season he has looked "consistent"ly slower than in the past and his shooting is worse. I don't think Bell can step up because he is over the hill. Sort of like Shaq.

I'm not trying to be unduly harsh on Giricek, but the guy is a dog. Stick a fork in the Suns if he stays in their rotation. Oh how the mighty have fallen flat on their face and a win on ABC against the Spurs won't change that.

 

Heh ... one of those things you have to pause to think about.

Yes, Nash is still a much better point guard than Rafer. That doesn't change the fact that he's one of the worst defensive point guards in the league who regularly gives up huge games to opposing point guards. Marion used to cover up for many of his defensive problems, but Marion is no longer there. Factor in the way Rafer has been playing recently against some of the better guards in the league -- I wouldn't be surprised to see Rafer average 20 points and 7 assists against the Suns.

 

Completely agree. Given how poorly the trade has looked for weeks, it should take a sample size of more than one game to praise it... unless you have an agenda.

 

You could be right on both accounts. But Bell is their leading MPG guy--I think he could be better (better legs for shooting & defense) at lesser minutes. Giricek might be a dog, but he played really well--excellent shooting and punky annoying defense--in last playoffs and was OK this year until he did something for which Sloan sent him to the dog house. Give him another 3 weeks of regular playing (conditioning and getting used to that team) and he might be a contributing bench player.

You guys are crazy on this. The Shaq deal was the most criticized of the major deals. I personally thought it was smarter than the Kidd deal--whereby Dallas gave up one of their better young players, best interior defender, plus two picks, and Dallas has been worse post trade. Yet the media have been far more forgiving of Dallas than of Phx.