I don't usually watch this forum, so forgive me if I'm just repeating a topic others have already exhausted, but: I was just sitting here thinking about some of the Rockets' crappy draft decisions -- Eddie Griffin, Jason Collier, Dan Langhi, Bryce Drew, Mirsad Turkcan -- and my mind drifted over to our competitors for the 8th spot, the Suns. Right away, a long line of terrific picks came to mind: Stoudemire, Marion, Finley, Nash. The Suns always seem to get high value with low to medium picks. How do they do it? Why can't we? If we'd drafted (with our higher picks) as shrewdly as they've drafted, we'd already have home court in these playoffs.
They have had some decent players but they have also had some busts. I'm not sure if you do this but I know I catch myself thinking about past bad decisions the Rockets made. When I look at the figures from other teams I see they have all made some bad decisions but as a Rockets fan I am more knowledgable about Rocket mistakes and I tend to only remember the things other teams did right. I look at the Suns draft history and they have taken some stinkers too. Alton Ford, Malcolm Mackey and several others. Remember the Rockets have had some good picks too. Horry,Cassell, Mobley... CK
The Suns have had their shares of bad draft picks, as bad as the Rockets. The Rockets have drafted guys like Horry, Cassell, Othella, Mobley among others. The Suns draft history of bad drafts has been covered up because they still happen to have some of their picks like Marion and Stoudemire. If you look at it the Rockets have actually drafted BETTER then the Suns. And in fact you can't judge the Griffin draft yet because it took Marion and Finley and Nash awhile before they developed. They produced about as much as Griffin has. In fact, Nash's development is actually very comparable to Griffin's. He has just now hit his stride.
Yeah...that's about the time he lite up an MJ... When asked about it, he thought the cops asked him how high he could jump...
alton ford is a bad pick? he was the second to last player chosen in the entire draft. me thinks your expectation are too high. anyway, the sun have had a good record lately, but with horry cassell, thomas, mobley, yao, dickerson, etc, i really can't complain about the rocket's drafts under rudy and carol.
I don't agree at all. The Suns have been the best in the business in drafting over the last 12 years or so. I think Rockets are top 5 though. There was a thread a few months ago but I couldn't find it w/o search. Basically, you look at great picks relative to drafting position in Stoudemire, Marion, Nash, Finley, and Tskaliades plus quality late 1st or 2nd round picks in guys like Person, Stephen Jackson, Oliver Miller, Richard Dumas & Seedy Claxton. The jury is out on Jacobsen. Ford was a good pick for a #51 merely for the fact he still is in the NBA. A late 2nd rounder who is still in the league into his second year is a "good pick". The Rockets have had Horry, Cassell, Mobley, KT, & Othella as very good to great picks--Yao and Franchise (technically drafted by Vancouver) don't really count because they were no brainers. The jury is out on Griffin and Nachbar. The Rockets record is good, but not near as impressive as the Suns considering where the Suns have drafted. Also remember the Rockets over that period had some Jason Colliers, John Turners, Rhoderick Rhodes, Byrce Drew, Mirsad Turkan, as some brutally ugly 1st round picks--the Suns don't have many of those. Also, Serge Swikker and Langhi might have well has been a 1st rounder (1st pick or 2nd in the 2nd).
Okay, I went back to 1980 and here is a list of all their 1st round picks since 1990 (I won't include 2nd round picks, because you can't really call them "bad" picks when they don't work out). 1980 - No pick 1981 - Larry Nance at #20 1982 - David Thirdkill at #15 1983 - No pick 1984 - Jay Humphries at #13 1985 - Ed Pickney at #10 1986 - William Bedford at #6 1987 - Armon Gilliam at #2 1988 - Dan Majerle at #14 1989 - Anthony Cook at #24 1990 - Jayson Williams at #21 1991 - No pick 1992 - Oliver Miller at #22 1993 - Malcolm Mackey at #27 (last pick in first round) 1994 - Wesley Person at #23 1995 - Mario Bennet at #27 1996 - Steve Nash at #15 1997 - No pick 1998 - No pick 1999 - Shawn Marion at #9 2000 - Jake Tskakalidis at #25 2001 - No pick 2002 - Amare Stoudemire at #9 Okay, looking at this list, I would say the only obviously bad pick was Armon Gilliam. Many better players were taken after him. I am unfamiliar with William Bedford, David Thirdkill, Jay Humphries or Ed Pickney. But looking at this list, I would say that the Suns have been much better at drafting than pretty much any other team in the league.
If you go back to 1980, you might as well throw in draft picks for the Rockets such as Hakeem and Ralph Sampson. Besides, I would say the Clippers are the best at drafting talent. They just don't keep it. Besides, I would say the Rockets drafting of guys like Mobley, Yao, Hakeem, Sampson, Cassell, Horry, Othella, Dickerson among others is just as good as the Suns.
Well who are the ones who decide who to pick? General Manager? Scouts? Two GM's have already been fired. Carroll Dawson is all right I guess. I know! Suns make all these picks! Same with Spurs! And Kings! And Lakers! And Pistons! They find perfect coaches and great role players and make good trades...
So do the Rockets. That's why only the Lakers have won more championships, and only the Lakers and Spurs have been to as many conference finals and won at least one NBA championship. In fact, only Phil Jackson has as many championships the Rudy of those teams. And the Rockets have put together a pretty good squad this year, albeit young. They also have made good trades, trading for Francis, trading for Rice who is doing a good job teaching the young players, and trading for Griffin who will be a good player, and at least gives us a big body right now.
I am giving EG the benefit of doubt. He's not fully developed yet. Oh no, he's just been released on bail on pot charges....
The Hakeem, Sampson and Yao Ming draft picks hardly count as good drafting, though. Those were pretty much no brainers. What's difficult is finding players like Cassell and Horry and Mobley later in the draft. Those are examples of excellent drafting. The Suns seem much better at that, constantly finding gems in the draft around the 9-15 areas. At any rate, the list I posted above was really done more to show that they have very few draft mistakes, while you could point to many Rockets draft picks in the 1st round that turned out pretty poorly, considering the draft position. The Rockets are damn good in the draft, the Suns are just better.
As a sidebar- the Suns trades really suck. the are paying 11 to 14 mil per season for Tom Gugliotta. they are paying huge contract $ for Penny Hardaway. They have made two excellent picks in Shawn marion and Amare Stoudemire. These two picks shine. The Tsakalidas pick has not been good yet.... I am just as glad not to be a Suns fan. They had better talent than us in both '94 and ' 95 and could not get it done. Danny Manning could never stay healthy while playing there. They really have had some bad breaks - with the Gugliotta seizure situation. I am glad we did not make a deal for Googs or Austin Croshere. Be thankful for some deals that do not work....
I was going to say the same thing about trades. It seems that the Suns' trades have been dumb enough to cancel out a lot of the ingenuity of their drafts. I'm still trying to figure out how they turned Finley and Cassell into Marbury, gave up Nash for a cheese sandwich, and handed Horry to the Lakers for Ceballos.
What in God's name makes you say Griffin will be a good player? Unless your idea of "good" is being a fringe starter/backup player. And yes, I'm talking about the future, as well as the present.
