[Sunday Times]Tibetan monks beaten as police halt dissent

Apparently it does, since the Western media has done the same thing for at least the past 10 years. The party line is that China is an evil entity which needs to be brought down, and the Western media sticks to it, despite the fact that it has to resort to blowing up non-issues and plain making stuff up to get stories.

 

Well I've actually been to Tibet and seen it with my own two eyes and spoken to real live tibetans. No media filter there.. More than one can say for most chinese.

Anyway, nobody gets history from the media. History is that Tibet was been an independent country for a long time (in fact, it dominatd china on several occasions, including the burning and sack of Xi'an/Chang'an) - i don't feel like going into specifics as it ahs been done manytimes on this board. China has made various meaningles declarations of suzeranity n occasion (trying to rewrite history - something chinese authorities are prone to whether it be the emperor or CCP), but these did not have any practical effect as they had no legitimate claim and no practical control.

China gained control after Chinese Invasion and occupation in the 50's that lasts to this day. As the massive chinese colonization of Tibet is increasingly successful (which is why they are now minorities in their own land), thanks in part to the railroad designed to bring more chinese in, this question will eventually evaporate as the last few Tibetans are culturally assimilated, and the remnants of their culture will live on in parts of India, Bhutan, Nepal, etc. Sad but true.

 

actually, western media is the most biased information system on earth. i believe western countries controls greater than 50% of the entire world media. pretty much everything is reported based on their own belief/poitical/religious system with absolute disregard of what other cultures in the world thinks. if it doesn't work in the west, then it should exist, that's the basic message. and the thing is, most people believe it's freedom. the propaganda in this country, is as bad as in any other country. but then again, propaganda keeps people together. oh well...

 

oh, yes...it's clear that americans all agree on religious/belief/political issues...and we use the media in one voice.

i'm sorry..but that's just laughable.

but China did build a train for Tibet once. so there's that.

 

We've owned the land since the Qing Dynasty, and it was under the control of the ROC; that's all that matters. The territory of China today is derived from the territory held by the Qing Dynasty and the ROC. If we wanted to go that deep into history I could say all of Russia belongs to China because the Mongol Khan once held sway over both lands.

So based on what your saying, we're doing a light, more humane version of what you Americans did to the Native Americans. Hell we aren't going around shooting buffalo simply to drive the natives off and for kicks. We're even allowing them to preserve their culture and guaranteeing that they will head the government of that territory. This is way better than what you did for the Indians, driving them off into crappy reservations. In fact, we're even feeding them money so that their economy can survive, and giving them railroads so their economy can prosper.

Americans have no right to complain about ANY supposed "human rights" violations that another country is committing.

 

gees, i wonder where you get that information. from the tibetans? i doubt they know that much history. i bet your information is based on internet. and sack of chang'an is like 15 days, when there were multiple rebellions in china already. opportunitists, dare i say? anyhow, there isn't much re-writing history, as a lot of it are from ancient record. trust me, ancient chinese record, the officials, are not false, maybe biased, but not false. actually, a lot of it are completely accurate. back then, there weren't any political issues like now.

 

it bothers the hell out of me that people think this way.

absolutely we do!! and you should be bothered by human rights violations too. every one of us should be. no matter which government is perpetrating them!!! we all should be speaking up about that kind of crap.

call out the US govt when they're the ones doing it

call out the Chinese when they're the ones doing it

and on and on.

 

i said most, not all... it's really the "us and them" mentality. the bottom line, people stick together. there are debates, different views sure. that's what keeping people think it's free. people always talk, but they never do.

 

ideally, of course. call out everyone. but US has always violated human rights. but nothing has changed. it's not just bush. next administration, it's still going to happen. there is no such thing as 100% human rights in any country. that's why, stop complaining about others, that's just hypocritical.

 

what???

 

oh great yuantian,
just IGNORE human rights problems right?

 

Exactly, that is something that a lot of the chinese posters simply can't comprehend.

I am more than able to point out failings in my own government/political system. They are more than happy t o join in such criticism usually. I don't like the war in Iraq - most of the rest of the world doesn't either. But I'm able to discuss it, also I'm able to discuss american territorial quesitons without getting emotional and upset. I mean hey, if somebody said "hey, the US should give puerto rico away tomorrow, like it did to other Spanish Civil War possessions (Phillipines, Cuba, etc)." Well, I would entertain the idea - with something other than an angry defensive shell.

On the flip side, if you criticize the PRC at all, they go to battle stations - espcially when it comes to territory. See the gentlemen above. And you get an angry version of the PRC party line justifying CHinese territorial expansionism at any cost, plus a blanket statement that China can do anything because the US did somethign bad two hundred years ago.

I think it probably has to do with a lack of political accountability in CHina which is why Chinese posters are so afraid to criticize their own government. Probably something to do with losing face or something.

 

i completely disagree. you call it out whereever you see it and you demand that it stop. if it's happening in your own country, you should be screaming louder than anyone else. call my hypocritical all you want.

people are more important than governments. governments are formed to serve people...not the other way around.

 

Some of them can't even admit when YAO plays bad.
You are asking them to admit when their government does bad?

you have a better chance convincing PETA of hosting a babyback ribs eating contest.

 

Guess if we want to talk about getting rid of land. Then getting rid of the land gained from Mexico would be closer in comparison.

 

The funny thing is the American Indians analogy - which goes something like "Well since european settlers colonized north america 300 years ago and eventually wiped out most of the Indians, us Chinese get to do the same thing!!!"

So, when they see colonization and genocide, the reaction of the folks on this board is not "colonization and genocide are wrong!," instead, it's more like "OUR TURN DUDES!"

What the early european settlers did to Indians (and slaves) was wrong and deplorable and shouldn't have happened. But becuase it happened then doesn't mean that people now have the right to do it anymore than Chinese have the right to start importing African Slaves since they never participated in that form of slavery.

Also, this presupposes that Han Chinese haven't already invaded and assimilated/conqured non Han areas. Of course they have, thousands of years ago areas that were on th periphery of China and populated with non-Hans are now part of the PRC - you had your turn with invading and colonizing. Really enough is enough.

 

Hmm, no not really. It would be a closer comparison if the US invaded Mexico in the 1950's and claimed the entire area. The land ceded by Mexico in the 1800's was sparsely populated by mostly european settlres at the time - there was no singular native culuture or independent country that was invaded and absorbed.

Anyway - this is another version of the "wel the US once did something bad 200 years ago, now China has carte blanche to do whatever we want!" really a flimsy, flimsy argument.

This argument would work if it was more contemporary. Let's say China invades Burma to get rid of the military dictatorship there and install a democratic governmet. At elast the CHinse would be justified in saying "well, that's the same as in Iraq" because it's largely contemporary and facially true. And I'd imagine that's what they would say - they wouldn't say "this is like Thomas Jefferson fighting the Barbary Pirates two hundred years ago!!!"

 

this reminds me of Star Trek.

The Borg - is always tapped into the collective and think as one
I think the PRC is the mother alien who controls Yuantian

The Star Trek Crew - Picard/LaForge/Data/Riker/Worf - are us, people who are use to thinking freely and grasp individualism. Even at points defying Star Fleet.

 

There were very few chinese in starfleet, more than a few japanese though (sulu). Not sure what was going on there.

 

It's easy for you to say that "colonization and genocide are wrong", but what if the US were limited to the space east of the Mississippi River? Your country GREATLY benefited from the land taken in the Great Plains and the West from the Indians and the Mexicans. In fact I'd venture a guess that the US wouldn't even hold a candle to the UK, France, Germany, and Russia/USSR if they didn't fulfill "Manifest Destiny". Now that your country is the most powerful and prosperous in the world, you can't be all sanctimonious, "OMG what we did was wrong and you shouldn't do it again", when your country's powerful and prosperous condition was quite simply built on that foundation of imperialism.

Besides, it's even worse in the American case because Tibet doesn't even have great natural resources and any effort spent in getting them would likely jack up the costs too high due to the altitude. We're probably paying more to sustain their economy then what we're getting back out of it.

Some things you can explain away by simply saying "we were wrong", but not this one. America is what it is, the sole superpower in the world, because your forefathers in the 19th century decided to fulfill Manifest Destiny. Without it the US is a second rate state like it was early in the 19th century. You have benefitted far too heavily to now go back and say "We were wrong."