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Suicide Bomber Blows Up Jerusalem Bus - Kills 20

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MadMax, Aug 19, 2003.

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  1. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Cohen, Sharon will strike back no matter what Abbas says or does.

    That situation is now back to square 1.

    It is too bad that the Islamists did not abide by the ceasefire.
     
  2. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Too bad your first sentence. I think the Israelis have as much responsibility to restrain themselves as the Palestinians. It takes both sides.
     
  3. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    What is "too bad" is that the majority of Palestinians in the occupied TERRORtories support the suicide bombers. Abbas is a paper tiger that is unable to reign in the Islamists, so Israel must act.

    Sharon would be an idiot not to strike.
     
  4. FranchiseBlade

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    Israel hasn't been able to stop the bombings either. Their stronghanded tactics haven't worked, and Sharon would be an idiot to keep them up.

    The quiet of the cease fire seemed to be the most effective tool until recently. Sharon should have let Abbas do his best to stop things and not stirred the nest by targeting the Hamas leaders during a cease-fire. Everyone knew that would cause more trouble.

    While I disagree with Sharon's tactics the suicide bombings, are the worst possible response Hamas could have. I'm glad that there are orders for their arrest, and I hope the whole terrorist wing of Hamas is dismantled.
     
  5. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    I think Sharon would be an idiot to strike--if he is serious about peace. I am not trying to blame Israel for the terrorist acts. But I do think they should at least give the new Palestinian leaders a chance to prove their sincerity of cracking down the extremists. The responsibility of dismantling terrorist groups is squarely on the shoulder of the Paletinians, not on the Israelis. The Israelis can never destroy terrorism from the outside.
     
  6. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    FB and Easy, if Abbas were in control, I would agree with you. Arafat needs to be exiled first, and then maybe the Israelis will be able to show some restraint. Until then, I don't think Abbas has any real power.

    I hope I am wrong. I would like nothing more than to see Abbas make some meaningful arrests, and pressure put on Sharon to take a more moderate posture.
     
  7. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Israel's Sharon Set to Strike Back for Bomb-Source



    Reuters
    Wednesday, August 20, 2003; 1:54 PM



    JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon approved a series of military strikes against Palestinian militants in response to a suicide bombing that killed 18 people in Jerusalem, a senior security source said on Wednesday.

    The source said the army operations, which could begin as early as Wednesday night and last several days, would go ahead regardless of Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas's order for security services to arrest militants behind the bombing.

    Abbas, who also cut off contact with Islamic militant leaders, acted after Israel shelved its planned handover of occupied cities to Palestinian control, froze high-level talks and reimposed a clampdown on the West Bank and Gaza.

    The security source said the plan, which was expected to be given the final go-ahead by Sharon's cabinet later on Wednesday, would target the main militant groups with arrests, raids and "targeted killings."

    He said the strikes would hit Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, groups that declared a three-month cease-fire on June 29 under pressure from the reformist Palestinian prime minister to prop up a U.S-led peace plan.

    "Israel will take action as a retaliation against the terror organizations," the source said.

    Hamas claimed responsibility for the bombing on Tuesday night on a bus filled Jewish families returning from prayers at a Jerusalem shrine.
     
  8. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    It is clear to me that the Islamists WANT this response. A significant percentage of Arabs, probably a majority, will trade innocent Arab lives for the chance to destroy Israel.

    I don't see a solution this decade.
     
  9. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    I don't see a solution until both Arafat and Sharon are gone and a new generation of leadership assumes power. They are like two old west gunfighters...all they know how to do is duel.
     
  10. FranchiseBlade

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    That sounds about right. Arafat is afraid to move on with Abbas' ideas and try a new way. He's stuck in doing things the same old way.

    Sharon, in addition to a personal hatred for Arafat, knows only one sollution and that's wreckless violence. Hell the cease fire worked for longer than Sharon's brutal reprisals have. Sharon, is in the camp of Israelis who want the Palestinians gone and out of the way. The goal for him is to take as much land as possible, and use a heavy hand to rule others. Even when he was dismantling some settlements(all but one were uninhabited) he was expanding others and working on his stupid land grabbing fence.

    We need people who are really committed to peace and not just going through the motions when their reputations drop so low that some sort of action has to be taken. Arafat and Sharon should make an agreement to both step down.
     
  11. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    The truce is OVER!!!!!

    I guess that means the peace roadmap is over as well.

    I'm just waiting for the next attacks to signal the regression back into tit-for-tat violence which, if you think about it, has been continuing but will only progress at a quicker pace now.

    The whole damn thing was a sham from the start.

    Blame the US for not reigning in Sharon during the truce.
     
  12. Franchise2001

    Franchise2001 Contributing Member

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    GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (Aug. 21) - Israel killed a senior Hamas political leader in a missile strike Thursday, retaliating for a suicide bombing of a bus in which 20 people died including six children. The Islamic militant group threatened revenge and formally abandoned a truce declared eight weeks ago.

    Also, Israeli troops raided the West Bank towns of Nablus, Jenin and Tulkarem in search of militants. In the West Bank city Hebron, troops blew up the home of the Jerusalem bus bomber, a routine punishment intended as deterrent.

    Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas warned that the assassination of Hamas leader Ismail Abu Shanab would make it harder to crack down on militant groups. Under pressure from Washington and Israel, the Palestinian leadership had decided on a clampdown just hours before his death.

    Abu Shanab, who is in his early 50s, was riding with two bodyguards in his white station wagon Thursday in Gaza City when five missiles fired from an Israeli helicopter hit the vehicle. The car burst into flames and the bodies were pulled from the wreckage. Fifteen bystanders were hurt.

    Dozens of Hamas supporters at the scene dunked their fists in blood, raised their hands and vowed revenge, chanting ''God is great.''

    Israel has routinely targeted members of Hamas' military wing but rarely gone after the group's political leaders. Abu Shanab, a U.S.-educated professor of engineering, was the third member of Hamas' political wing to be killed in the past two years.

    Abu Shanab was widely regarded as a moderate in the group, and served as a liaison with Abbas during the prime minister's efforts to persuade Hamas to halt attacks.

    Israel says the distinction between political and military leaders is insignificant, because both are involved in planning attacks.

    ''There's no question that there is a direct link between the heads of Hamas and the terrorists on the ground,'' said Israeli Foreign Ministry official Gideon Meir.

    Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon warned that if the Palestinian Authority ''does not take all the necessary steps in the war against terror, real and substantial steps, it will not be possible to advance on the diplomatic track.''

    Hamas and a smaller militant group, Islamic Jihad, formally called off a three-month truce they declared June 29.

    ''We consider ourselves no longer bound by this cease-fire,'' said a Hamas leader, Ismail Hanieh, after identifying Abu Shanab's decapitated body at a Gaza City morgue.

    Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin said his group vowed revenge.

    ''This crosses all red lines,'' Yassin said of the missile strike.

    Addressing the Israelis, he said: ''You will pay the price for these crimes.''

    Hamas had carried out two suicide bombings despite the cease-fire, including the Jerusalem bus attack Tuesday that killed 20 people, including five Americans. The group insisted these were limited retaliations for deadly Israeli raids and not violations of the truce.

    Abbas warned the missile strike would hamper the planned crackdown, saying, ''This for sure will affect the whole process and the decision taken by the Palestinian Authority.''

    Earlier Thursday, he met with U.S. envoy John Wolf to discuss the authority's next moves.

    Secretary of State Colin Powell called on Yasser Arafat to make his security forces available to Abbas.

    ''End terror, end this violence that just results in further repetition of the cycle that we've seen so often,'' Powell said at the United Nations, where he met with Secretary-General Kofi Annan. ''Those who are determined to blow up the road map must not be allowed to succeed.''

    Israel had suspended what it calls targeted killings and what the Palestinians call assassinations during the cease-fire. But the Israeli security Cabinet decided late Wednesday to renew the practice, in response to the Jerusalem bombing, the deadliest since the launch of a U.S.-backed peace plan three months ago. More than 100 people were wounded in the blast, including about 40 children.

    After taking office in April, Abbas had shied away from confrontation with Hamas, Islamic Jihad and armed renegades in his own Fatah movement, saying he feared civil war.

    Pressure mounted after the Jerusalem bombing, however, with the United States demanding an immediate crackdown.

    ''There's funding, there's support, there's munitions, there's organization, and all that needs to be taken apart,'' U.S. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said.

    In a first step, Abbas ordered the arrest of all those directly involved in the bombing, and then asked his Cabinet for proposals on a wider clampdown. The ideas raised in the Cabinet meeting, including arrests, a gag order on Hamas and Islamic Jihad spokesmen, and the freezing of assets of militant groups, were taken to Arafat and top PLO officials for approval late Wednesday.

    The meeting, which lasted until early Thursday, was at times stormy. Abbas had told his ministers earlier that he would resign if he did not get Arafat's full support for taking action against Hamas and Islamic Jihad, but it was not clear whether he made the threat in Arafat's presence.

    In the end, Abbas and Arafat agreed on a joint statement which said the Palestinian Authority would enforce the rule of law, take control of illegal weapons and end ''military displays'' by the militants, a reference to marches led by gunmen.

    The Palestinian leadership statement did not refer to arrests, which would appear to be a cornerstone of any crackdown, but Palestinian officials said there would be detentions.

    ''It's a campaign that even in the worst nightmares Hamas and Islamic Jihad never imagined,'' Elias Zananiri, a spokesman for Palestinian security chief Mohammed Dahlan, said before the missile strike. ''There's a list of people to be arrested.''

    The Israelis moved back into Palestinian areas after the bus bombing. Since the spring of 2002, when Israel reoccupied most of the West Bank, troops have been moving in and out of Palestinian towns repeatedly to arrested wanted men.

    The biggest operation was in the old city of Nablus, a militant stronghold where troops were looking for Hamas militants and Fatah renegades responsible for two bombings that killed two Israelis earlier this month.

    Troops sealed off the old city with armored vehicles and barbed wire and ordered residents out of homes to search buildings. They arrested 14 Palestinians, including a Hamas member caught with a large quantity of explosives, the army and witnesses said.

    In the town of Tulkarem, Israeli undercover troops chasing two Fatah gunmen raided a pool hall, but the fugitives escaped. The soldiers opened fire during the chase, killing a 16-year-old bystander and wounding four, all under the age of 20, Palestinian security officials said. The Israeli military said there was a gunbattle.

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