the study looks at dark skinned people's paychecks compared to lighter skinned paychecks. If you want to make assumptions about the subjects, go right ahead, it won't change the results.
Actually, I would argue that social skills have a huge impact on one's earnings potential. That's the problem with the study -- it doesn't account for social skills. As such, the data is flawed and can not be used.
you're right, and when studies show that the majority of prisoners are black, we should also take into account their upbringing, the racial discrimination they face and the other factors that go into why they're in prison today.
This study is waaay to broad to mean anything. It's like the statement that women make less money than men. Well that makes sense when you look at the fact that more men are going into and graduating with degrees in higher paying fields such as engineering. The real study I would like to see is some study that compares salaries of graduates of similar degrees (with similar GPAs) broken out by gender, race, and other factors. I'm not saying that things like race and gender have no effect at all, but this study does not prove that to me at all. I whole heartedly believe that upper managment and excecutive positions are very discriminatory, but the thing you sometimes forget is that it is a select portion of the upper-crust of white men in America that are part of that. The average white person has very little chance of getting to that level either. It's all about networking, and contrary to popular belief the good-ol-boy network at the top does not include most white people, only the select few. As for regular jobs I think for the most part (not always) things are pretty equal when all things are truly equal (education, etc).
Of course it can't. But not because the data is flawed - because the results don't agree with what you want to believe.
You didn't read the article and don't understand what the study is about. You appear to be operating under the illusion that the study found difference BETWEEN ethnic groups. Rather, the key finding is that WITHIN ethnic groups, skin tone made a difference, even when other factors were adjusted for, see, e.g.: This is effectively the "real study" you asked for.
Exactly, the study did not make any assumptions abou factors that made them earn less. It simply gave us the results.
Yes, and those results are meaningless without controlling for very influential variables which were excluded. Even within ethnic groups, you have many differences between people. The data set simply can not be used with any degree of confidence. It is therefore without merit.
Why are you afraid of this study? I don't see anyone using it to argue with you on anything. Is this some sort of a preemptive strike?
Interesting rejoinder, Sam. Obviously, you haven't been reading close enough if you are still incapable of grasping why the data set is flawed and must be thrown out. Controlling for 'noise' as it is called in scientific testing circles, is a huge issue. This study simply has not controlled for all interfering variables which can lead to flawed conclusions. As such, the study is without merit.
This study has a population of 8,600. When you are looking at a specific occupation, there is no way they can have a statistically significant number of samples for that specific occupation with all other things essentially equal to draw a true conclusion. I want to see a study of 8600 graduates of Electrical Engineering that graduated from a Top 50 school with a GPA of at least 3.5. Then I would consider drawing some sort of conclusion as to how skin tone affects salaries within that occupation. I would bet there are occupations where you would find that skin tone makes a HUGE difference and I would bet there are other occupations where it couldn't make a difference. I'm not saying I know what all the results would be, but what I am saying is that this study is too broad to mean anything worthful.
And by correlation, ALL statistical studies ever conducted must be thrown out, because none have ever controlled for every possible variable. Well, except the ones that T_J agrees with, in which case he'll forget about his own absurd standards and yell and scream about whatever issue he supports.
You're arguing that it's imperfect. Of course it is. Suffice it to say this is not the first study that has unearthed a correlation, within ethnic and racial groups of this phenomenon - many surveys, studies, psych experiments, etc have all shown this effect in various ways. So I guess you can wait around for the theoretical "perfect" study to come along, but you're going ot be waiting a long, long, long time. In the mean time we can either look at the data we have or ignore it and pretend like it doesn't exist.
No I am arguing that this study is so imperfect that it is virtually meaningless. I'm not saying its wrong, but unless they are going to get more specific, the results tell you nothing. If there was a study shown similar to what I asked for, please show it to me. My study is FAR from perfection because it only has 3 constant factors (EE Degree, Top 50 University, 3.5+ GPA), and it would not be difficult to do. It would tell ALOT about how skin tone affects top college EE graduates. The problem is that these researchers do not get headlines with specific research like that, they get them with blanket statements which are meaningless. All I am saying is that there has to be more factors that remains constant in the equation because the study as it reads really shows none that remain constant.
I don't recall even speaking to you I generally ignore you because I consider you nothing more than a small minded bigot So go away Internet Kl*nsm*n Rocket River
You've GOT to be kidding, right? Have you had any extensive experience in the "real world?" I could google reams of data proving that women, for instance, are discriminated against in the workplace. The fact that I've seen it with my own eyes numerous times over the years is anecdotal. I think, with all due respect, that you're just being lazy, by either not paying attention, or not bothering to do any research. Why don't you, and get back to us. D&D. Knowledge is just parked around, all over the place, just waiting to be picked up. Pick Some Up.
Either you just don't get it, or you don't like the results. Not only is it far from perfection, it actually sucks ass. What top 50 university list do we use? US News & world report? Vault.com? What if the schools don't have electrical engineering programs. What if the school sucks overall but has a good electrical engineering program Why are we even choosing electircal engineering? Who cares about electrical engineering? Why is electrical engineering an appropriate proxy for other professions or society as a whole? How many Somali immigrants of varying skin tones in electrical engineering are there with which to tell us about results? Aren't there a lot of Indian EE's? How do you plan to control for any caste or religious bias? What about work visas? English ability? What about salary requirements? See how easy this is? Exactly. And I guess that would be very valuable to leading researchers in the field of top college EE graduate social science. LOL, I can't think of anything more meaningless than a few short-term trends across an incredibly narrow subset of individuals like electrical engineers....how do you say that the other study sample size was too small and yet you want to zero in on this? I consider it a lot more meaningful as far as identifying social trends ACROSS fields and groups when a study identifies that a darker skinned, more native-american appearing illegal immigrant from Latin America gets a lower paying busboy job than a taller fairer skinned one, and that a fairer skinned Bangla engineer makes more money than his darker skinned colleague. I don't think you know nearly enough about it to make this statement. You whiffed on your initial assessment of the study by obviously not reading the article - so I can't help but think your bias against the results is affecting your opinion here.
How has my opinion changed one bit? You yourself said my proposed study was meaningless (which to be honest I would partially agree with), but that just shows how much more meaningless the study in this article is.
