students get sent home for wearing American Flag on Cinco De Mayo

There's a difference in disruption between, "this is gonna cause a riot" versus "I have a problem with a stupid T-shirt on one particular day".

 

So is yelling FIRE!! But try doing that in a movie theater and see if you don't find yourself on the wrong side of some bars.

 

So I guess the school should've just waited for a riot to break out before they took action.

 

The question has to be asked if an act has a violent or intimidating undertone to it. In the case of Nazis marching through a black neighborhood burning effigies of blacks - then it's pretty obvious that's not an act of free speech as much as an act meant to oppress and intimidate.

But this one is far harder to define. If you had people wearing the confederate flag on MLK day - would that be a disruptive act? Certainly more so than wearing an American flag on Cinco de Mayo, right?

So let's look at the more extreme case. Should a student who wears the confederate flag on MLK day be sent home?

My answer is that schools have a right to control what kids wear. Why? Because schools are not meant as places to excercise free speech - they are places wear you go to learn. And the school's job is to create an environment conducive to learning. Therefore, they can send anyone home for any reason if they think that person is disrupting the ability for students to learn. It doesn't matter if it's a t-shirt or an ear ring. Yes it's stupid, but hey, welcome to education.

So if the school felt it might have led to a riot or something like that, they have to send the kids home. The school isn't about protecting free speech.

That being said, I think these kids with the flags were up to no good. They knew what they were doing, and they were seeking the attention. That's a good reason to have them sent home - not for wearing American flags, but for being trouble makers.

They have every right to express their freedom and make whatever statement they like, and the school has every right to see them as a disturbance to the educational process for other students and send them home.

 

If I complained about your shoes.....does that make them disruptive?

 

so what?

did they cause trouble? did they do anything tangible other than simply wearing the shirts? seems like a bunch of whiny babies were too sensitive about the shirts and went and cried to the principal.

whats wrong w/ that?

did they say that a mexican holiday should not be celebrated at their school? anyway, cinco de mayo is more of an american holiday than a mexican one.

but that did not happen, did it? were these students going around provoking hispanic students in any tangible, physical way? if they started fights then they should be punished for it, but they were not. and if hispanic kids were going around trying to start fights w/ them then they should be punished for it, but that didnt seem to happen either.

you are very wrong - most of us here are not so sensitive that we would want to 'beat you to death' simply for wearing a shirt. as i already stated earlier in the thread...

you need to ask yourself why you think someone wearing an american flag in america is so offensive.

 

wearing an american flag t-shirt in america is the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater?

 

so my analogy of a kid in mexico wearing a mexican flag shirt on 4th of july is not relevant, but your analogy of a group of kids tormenting and bullying a fat kid and making whale shirts to mock him is?

and i never said they couldnt do that - i simply offered my opinion that what the school did was wrong. as i already pointed out several times, you are arguing w/ people about things they never said.

furthermore, i disagree w/ the notion that simply wearing a flag shirt is disruptive. were these kids going around provoking other students in any tangible way? were they running around going "mexico sucks"? were they trying to start fights w/ hispanic kids? this seems to be a preemptive strike on the part of the school - i did not realize you were such a proponent of the bush doctrine.

 

it's not a flag if it has a picture of it... it's only a problem if the shirt was sewn out of a real flag.

 

Man anyone who has taken a constitutional law class would know this school messed up bad.

How are you going to ban these children from wearing their flag on their shirt, while other symbols are being shown? Tinker v. Des Moines outlines this pretty well. Also, was there a reasonable reason to send these boys, and essentially censor them? I doubt a riot would have broken out. It sounds like these kids would have an excellent case against the school. Go get'm lawyers. Bring it.

 

Yes, because conduct in the school districts of Mexico DF is regulate by the laws of the Federal Republic of Mexico, whatever they are.

Who knows? Maybe they were. I suspect the school admins are in a better position to know than you or I.

 

Here's what happened... the school district has admitted to acting "too soon"

This means there wasn't a disruption. Witnesses have reported that there was no disruption, and no violent atmosphere at the time. The real issue came when the vice principal was upset they were being ignored by students who recognized their right for free speech. The VP then punished them and made a stink out of it when he had no authority to do so. There was no reasonable reason to believe this would cause violence. This is demonstrated by the school's backsliding statements. If they did have a reason, their lawyers and PR people would be openly talking about it to save themselves in the public spotlight. Because they can't use this obvious defense, because it would be a lie, it's pretty clear that it never happened.

 

It must be a reasonable reason. This is not a reasonable reason from what I've garnered.

 

You don't need reasonable reason. Minors have no rights according to SamFisher. The school can do anything they want to students, such as hit them if they are being disruptive. Oh wait...

 

On a constitutional level - they can.

See Ingraham v. Wright, 430 U.S. 651 (1977).

Oh wait what, brah, you found a case that overturns Ingraham? Please post for me.

 

i am well aware that kids in mexico wear uniforms to school. i have been going down there once a year for about 10 years now and seen more of that country than i have my own. in fact, in 4 weeks i will be leaving for a trip to chiapas and guatemala. but what i was offering was what us slack-jawed r****ds call a "hypothetical" situation. do you know what a "hypothetical" situation is? or did you miss "law school" the day they taught that concept? :grin:

and again, the kids in your analogy were teasing and tormenting a kid for being fat and then made shirts specifically to mock him for being fat. that is not a comparable analogy in any way to what happened in this case. unless you equate simply wearing a shirt w/ an american flag on it in america to be an act of 'tormenting' or 'bullying'.