So you are saying that losing a HOFer and the best player on your team is not an excuse? Not sure how you can lend more weight to Dunleavy losing control of the team rather than Magic's retirement. Dunleavy's team was in the WC finals BEFORE Pippen. Their winning % before Pippen was 70% and after was 72%. So you are saying that another coach, besides Dunleavy, can win win without a veteran leader? Name one who has. The same thing can be said about Brown and Carlisle. Name one team that Brown, Carlisle, Jackson or Van Gundy coached that DIDN't have a proven leader. It goes hand and hand. To win a title, you need a good coach and veteran leaders.
The Lakers still had Worthy, Scott, Perkins and Divac, yet still could only win 43 games? There is a reason Dunleavy was fired and it wasn't due to the loss of Magic. Dunleavy is just not a very good coach. See Dunleavy's record with the Bucks Why was he fired then? Seems kinda unfair to fire a guy who lost hiss star player, doesn't it. Perhaps he wasn't as good of a coach as they thought? The logic is there if you take off your blindfold.
Oh please. Give me a break. Dunleavy had 2 20+ point scorers on that Milwaukee team with all-stars Robinson and Vin Baker. Both were young and in the prime of their careers. I would hardly call having 2 all-stars NOTHING. Why even bother when there at least 4 other teams who have better to offer. I challenge anybody (other than some of the obsequious fans here) to say Mike Dunleavy is a better coach than Larry Brown. Frankly I see the whole thing as a big cop out by the Rockets organization. Mike Dunleavy is a decent coach but certainly not considered one of the tops in the game. This is a watershed time for the Rockets. This is Yao and Steve's prime. The next coach will determine what will happen with their careers and this team. Why should we settle for a mediocre coach whom no team wants when we have what many people consider the "best job available". Mike Dunleavy has shown me nothing that would suggest he can take underacheiving players and make them better. The people who defend him here would never defend him except for the reason that the Rockets may select him.
A little context on Dunleavy's stint in Portland. The Trail Blazers were far and away the biggest spenders in the NBA at the time, and the common perception was of league-wide dismay over their stock-piling of talent. In fact the luxury tax was, I believe, a direct response to Portland's moves, which were hailed far and wide as 'buying Championships.", and it was hotly debated whether the Trail Balzers' second until could make the playoffs as a starting team. And they won how many, again? Remember, this was before other teams went the same route, patterened after Portland. Dallas and Sacramento were not what they are now. In terms of accumulated talent, the Portland Trail Blazers of Dunleavy's day were far more dominant than any team playing today. Imagine a 4 year stint as the Yankees' manager, with 0 appearances in the World Series. Would you call that a success, or a failure?
Bob Finn continues to make generalized statements without considering anything else. First off, Dunleavy was not fired. He RESIGNED. Also, Perkins and Worthy both missed the last 1 or 2 months of the season (and playoffs) with injuries.
Bob, I tend to agree with your point about vets. I would be more comfortable with Dunleavy if this team had more veterans and was not controlled by a bunch of immature guards. Dunleavy seems like a nice guy who is well suited for a veteran team much like Rudy. I just dont see how Dunleavy is going to get Francis and Mobley to start playing a team game based around Yao's passing. This is the big reason I wanted Brown throughout this search; his offensive concept is based on the role players setting picks and moving w/o the ball so that the stars get the ball in an attack position. The insinuation by some in this thread that he just gives the ball to Iverson and lets him do whatever is just plain wrong. The idea of just dumping to Yao and "let him go to work" is simply not going to cut it in this era of zones. I want a coach thats going to run a proper team oriented offense and be able to get through to Francis and Mobley on the importance of this concept. Rudy's intentions may have been good and his goals may have been similar to what we are talking about here, but if he is not able to get his players esp the guards to do what is needed, then the result is much the same. To all the Dunleavy supporters: When has he proven that he can get young players to buy into his concept and get them playing as a team? The only time Dunleavy has been successful is when he has had a mature veteran laden team that already understands the importance of this. I just do not feel one bit optimistic about this team's prospects next yr if they sign Dunleavy unless they completely overhaul the roster and surround Yao and Steve with a bunch of savvy vets that can help bring this team along. If this team stays as is and Dunleavy is added, I just dont see more than a 43-45 win season.
It depends on what we are looking for. If one of the things we want is the team to play teamball, and distibute it better, then Dunleavy's teams do that. That's a great thing, and would greatly improve the team. The 76ers were supposedly better than the Pistons this year, but they didn't make it as far as the Pistons. Is that a success or a failure? We can't say for sure how long Brown was going to stay in Houston, but was the vagabond coach going to be here long enough to get us to the finals anyway? He would have instilled some much needed discipline on the court, no doubt, but how many trades for VanHorn's would have to go through in the meantime? If we had the system in place would he have seen the project through? There isn't really a history of Brown doing that either. After the CNNSI article it looks like Brown had talked with the Pistons before they fired Carlisle. If he wasn't happy with the Rockets offer he could have mentioned it rather than dealing secretly with Detroit and the Rockets could have perhaps modified things. The whole detroit scenario leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I don't know if we want to play those kinds of games to hire a vagabond and quick fix guy for a few years. Prior to that I was all for Brown, but now I'm not totally sad he wont' be heading our way. Either way it looks like get a coach who's going to get our team to move the ball, and that means move without the ball.
Role-players, not stars. Yes, Worthy was a role-player, a damned good one too. You didn't refer to that when making your statement so I didn't go into it. I have not seen any coach get any more out of Robinson than Dunleavy did. The rest of that team were a good-average at best. Baker was good at the time but was over-rated then, as he proved with every coach afterwards. It does seem unfair. But that happens every day. Coaches are the first guy to go when a team is rebuilding. Its not like the Lakers blew up the spot with Rambus now did they? They weren't good again until Shaq and Kobe came on the scene with Jackson thrown in. The bucks have twice as much talent now as they did with Dunleavy and they still aren't close to winning it all. Karl is on the hotseat for that reason. Then please present it. Facts, dates, stats. Not hater opinion. A good arguement is made by presenting both sides. Dunleavy Fired from Lakers in the wash of Magic going away and two key role-players going down for 1-2 months during the season. - Lakers still didn't win until two super stars were brought in and thre other coaches were fired. The Bucks haven't won anything in a long long time. After Dunleavy resigned and stayed on as GM (which means the team obviously didn't hate him) the team still didn't win dick and didn't get into the playoffs tills Karl came years later and he is about to go too. The Blazers are a team of ill-fitted pieces. The only way a coach could have done any better with that team would have been to take control of the GM spot and trade them all. Big money doesn't = big wins.
JVG and Carlisle have a better chance of succeeding than Dunleavy. Rick did a lot more than Dunleavy with a club that doesn't have much talent.Van Gundy also took NY to the finals even though they weren't anywhere near as deep as Portland. Don't forget Portland went into a nosedive after losing to the Lakers.We are a very inexperienced team and need a strong leader and Dunleavy isn't the man for the job in my opinion.
This is not just about larry Borwn. Assuming we don't get Brown, why don't we go after Carlisle. At least interview him. I don't understand why we wouldn't do that when he's considered one of the brightest young coaches in the game today. Some people complain about Brown's team saying Detroit beat them with less talent. Then other people say Dunleavy is a better coach and Detroit had more talent. Face it. Detroit were overacheivers who had no business winning 50 games and going to the Eastern Conference finals. Carlisle is considered one of the best young coaches in the game with brilliant x's and o's, able to maxmimze the talent around him. From developing the Pacers' offense to developing the Piston's defense. Why would we simply ignore that?
How funny it is that Robinson and Baker have been prennial losers in their careers yet they had their best years under Dunleavy. That being said, everyone knows that they are not players you build a team around. Allen was a rookie (13 PPG) in Dunleavy's last year. He was far from the all-star that he is today. You could say the same thing about Dunleavy. He was a lock to be the next head coach in Atlanta. So maybe thats why no one was interested in him because they knew Atlanta was his 1st choice and he was Atlanta's 1st choice. I don't think anyone is saying that. However, how much better is Brown than Dunleavy? Is it worth giving Brown anything he wants when Dunleavy is willing to play by Les' rules? I found it so odd that you, and many others, can bash the Rockets organization when none of us are privy to all of the details. You should at least wait until those details to come out before you post such prejudice statements. Who knows? Maybe we offered Brown the money he wanted and partial player personel control??? Maybe Brown was going to take the Detroit job regardless of what we offered him. That is debatable. However, he has proven he can win with a team that has talent. Agreed. Lets give whatever coach comes here a chance and root for him. Again, you are the one calling him mediocre. The Rockets obviously do not feel this way or they would not have given him an interview. At this time, I trust CD and Les' judgement Neither has Brown. He just gets rid of them for ones that aren't underacheivers. Just like the people who bash the Rockets front office no matter if they are privy to all the details or not.
wow!!! this board went from Larry Brown bashing just a few days ago and now the Mike Dunleavy bashing is picking up again. Will there be a coach out there that doesn't get bashed?
Explain why Dunleavy was fired by the Lakers. It doessn't seem fair to fire a coach when the star players leaves and the team sucks, does it? Dunleavy's team was in the WC finals BEFORE Pippen. Their winning % before Pippen was 70% and after was 72%. I'm saying we need a coach who can teach young talent. Dunleavy has proven he is unable to do this (Bucks) Brown- Clippers Carlisle- Pistons
My support of Dunleavy over JVG is that I don't feel JVG will develope the offense and that is something Les has stated he wants. Mike D is a better fit for the traits Les stated he was looking for. JVG is a very good defensive coach and would improve this team in that regard. He did however quit on the Knicks when things started going wrong instead of trying to find a fix or at least make a respectable departure. That lost him any remaining points he had in my book. Carlisle deserves some serious attention. He worked wonders with Detroit. I understand that he is an excellent offensive coach and if he brings whomever is responsible for his teams D (someone stated it was an assistant) then all the better. I'm not making him my first choice because I don't know enough about him, lets hope Les knows more than any of us. He doesn't have a long history as a head coach, so that may count against him in the end but that's entirely up to Les. From what he accomplished in Detroit i'm willing to put him and Mike D as tied for best option.
He was fired late Friday. The weekends are a hard time to get good info about whats going on in management. I'm sure Carlisle will get immediate consideration and well he should. What makes you think that Les and CD aren't going to interview him? They've interviewed every other coach available and Carlisle has to be rated above almost all of them.
I agree. Its not fair. And thats why he wasn't fired. He resigned. Vin Baker went from being an all-star under Dunleavy to a has been. The likes of Todd Day was a 16 PPG scorer under Dunleavy and was a nothing without him. Clippers - Manning 20 PPG (5th year), Harper 19 PPG (7th year) and Rivers (9th year) were not proven veterans? Pistons - Robinson and Wallace are probably both considered veterans and no doubt, the leaders of that team. Also, lets be realistic. In the West, the Pistons look better playing in the East (they were only 12-11 versus the West).
So no comment about the other facts... fine: 4 years Before MD: 1996-97 49 33 .598 1995-96 44 38 .537 1994-95 44 38 .537 1993-94 47 35 .573 4 years With MD: 97-98 Blazers 46 36 .561 98-99 Blazers 35 15 .700 99-2000 Blazers 59 23 .720 2000-01 Blazers 50 32 .610 Last year: 2001-02 49 33 .598 If Mo Cheeks wins .700+ next season I may adjust my opinion on this matter... but I doubt i'll have to.
Proving what point? I just said that Baker and Robinson had their best years under Dunleavy. So did mediocre players like Todd Day. All you have to do is go look at their career #s.
