One more thing. Skypilot- take a look at Popeye's little story. Honestly tell me how Francis was being a terrible classless person, and how he deserves to be labeled as a classless fool because of one mistake. ------------------
Freak, all of the players you mentioned have all made stupid statements in the media and bad mouthed alot of people. Francis said "I do not want to play there because you already have a PG.". He did not say " I do not want to play there because Van sucks(it does not BTW)". Your correlation has no merit. Yes I believe because Van had poor leadership in the front office they made a mistake by drafting a player who they did not have position for. Maybe Francis should have wasted some very productive years playing backup to Bibby. He did what he had to and Van was the ONLY team he said he would not play for. Yet they still drafted Francis. Francis did what was right for Francis and his future. I cannot fault him for that, nor should anybody else until you have walked a mile in his shoes. To answer your question, the true point of the draft is to get players that you need. Van needed some size , not a flashy PG( that they wanted to turn into a SG) because they already had one. I would never want a player on any team that I owned, coached , or played for that did want to be there. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust
The above analogy doesn't work because of the NBA's way of "acquiring" employees. The Cat, Yes I think Francis is classless. Not to the extreme of Bud Adams but close. It will take along time for me to stop labeling Francis as classless. If he had class, he would of stepped up to the challenge and learned to handle adversity but he choose the classless way out by threatening to not play. ------------------
Popeye: I do not find any relevance between the story you gave and the Francis situation. The surgeon applied for a job and had the right to work wherever the hell he wanted. On the other hand, Steve Francis knew the rules of the draft ahead of time. He very well knew that his playing future was in the hands of the draft, and he had no say in where he went. He knew that their would be a possibility that Vancouver would pick him, yet he entered the draft. His nightmare came true, thus he completely ripped the city of Vancouver and acted like an immature kid. In the NBA, players get their choice of where they want to play, later in their careers. It's called free agency. Until then, you be a man and play where you are assigned. What would you guys be saying if the Rockets had landed the first pick in the draft this lottery, and then drafted Kenyon Martin, only to have him diss the city and demand a trade? And no, I don't give a crap that "[he] warned Vancouver ahead of time that he didn't want to play for them." Frankly, Vancouver, if you will, earned that #2 pick in the draft and they were entitled to who they felt was the 2nd best player in the draft, and a player that fit their needs. All of you saying that they were stupid to draft Francis in the first place, what would you say if the Rockets had the 2nd pick in the draft and badly needed an athletic big man, but were forced to draft a player of lesser talent such as Chris Mihm? What if Kenyon Martin said he didn't speak "Texan." What would you all say to that? Look, I love Steve Francis, and I wouldnt go as far as Sky Pilot to say that he is classless, but what he did was act like a spoiled brat, and that particular act was up there with the Quitten debacle. But, I believe in second chances and letting a player earn back their respectability. However, don't try to play off what Steve did to bring him here in the first place. [This message has been edited by thacabbage (edited May 30, 2000).]
So if Francis is classless in one instance, that makes him and overall classless guy? That's what I don't get. He made one mistake. But you don't (or at least shouldn't) judge a guy by just one occurence. Look at his whole personality, and many events before you label him as classless or a guy that has class. Do I admit he made a mistake there? Yeah. But his ratio of classy things to non-classy things is probably about 100-1. That's why I say he has class. You can not judge a person by one event. You just can't. Everyone has done something bad in their lifetime. Therefore are we all classless? Are you saying that if he has just one bad thing that he is a classless fool? ------------------
Sky Pilot I failed to understand your logic that player with Steve's circumstance is consider classless. The NBA is an elite institutes that only a selected few have the privilege to be a part of. However, this does not translate into an obligation for anyone that was drafted by the NBA when that player is willing to forfeit that privilege. If a player wants to play in the NBA, I would agree that he must follow the rules. Steve was willing to set out rather than play for Vancouver; hence he has no obligation to oblige to the NBA draft. I failed to see why a person is consider classless if he is willing to forfeit his privilege to join an elite club because he does not want to follow the rules set forth by that club. ------------------
Cabbage -- that was sensational! Guess I can shut up now... Cat -- calling something a 'mistake' to me implies that if you had it do over again, you'd act differently. If you think Francis would be playing for the Grizzlies right now had he had a second chance, then you can call it a mistake. Something tells me that's not the case, though. ------------------ "Yes, I came from the 80s...but I didn't kill anybody. Give me a break." -Mike Tramp, former lead singer of White Lion
Cat is a classy dude. You guys arent being fair to Francis. He did go to school for a little while. ------------------ I have a special purpose.
Francis did in fact worked out for Vancouver. The primary reason he was drafted by Vancouver was because they were blown away by his stellar workout. So whoever said he refused to workout for them is wrong. ------------------
He did not workout with Van. They saw his Bulls workout( I believe ) and was blown away. They were told by him, his agent , and his College coach that he had no desire to play there and would sit out forever. Sounds like to me that Van was the one who made a mistake. Steve is a grown man and choose to give up basketball before he would play for Van. It was Stu Jackson ( wasn't he forced to resign?) that ignored all the signs and drafted him anyway. Smart decision. Using the analogy of "if the Rockets had the 1st pick and they drafted a guy who said that he did not want to play here" is silly. 1st of all Rudy would never draft a person who was not quality nor would he draft a person who did not want to be here. Thats bad business and bad for your team. Maybe that is why Van has had such a big turnover of executives. You do not make your team better by drafting people that you do not need. They already had a PG in Bibby and they needed size to cover for the big slow..I mean big country. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust [This message has been edited by Dennis2112 (edited May 30, 2000).]
I think Popeye's analogy works very well, but I would tweak it a bit. Change the scenario so that we are talking about residency programs (strangely similar to the 3-year rookie deals). As a graduating medical student, you pick your specialty and rank the schools in order of preference at which you wish to continue your residency. The med schools then pick the residents they want in order of preference. Matches (and mis-matches) are created. Here's where the analogy weakens. The resident who doesn't like his match CAN OPT OUT and try again next year but his/her reputation is damaged. No one may want him or her. NBA Hoop wannabees just say "screw you" and get a regular job for 1 year or go back to college to "continue" their studies and re-enter the draft in one year. Many teams will still want them, and in the case of Francis or Swift, EVERYONE will want them. ------------------ There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.
The only thing you failed to mention is that if a player hires an agent he cannot go back to school and play. Swift has not (as of yet) hired an agent. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust
Sticking to the topics (both the listed one and what it has morphed into), here is an article: Stromile Swift and working out for Vancouver ------------------
Dennis2112.... that's why I said to go back to "continue" studies implying that eligibility is gone thus no hooping. I credit Stromile for having the moxy to not hire an agent; he retains leverage over his situation by keeping all options open. I hope he sticks to his guns and forces someting Houston's way. We'll pay a price but gain as well. And Kudos to Stevie Franchise for exercising his rights in this imperfect system. I don't at all get you guys who bash him for his actions taken against Vancouver. He was willing to pay the price by sitting out. I'd say that Francis, Vancouver, and Houston all came out OK in this deal. I can't speak for Price, Dickerson or Othella although I think I know how Othella feels about it all. Perhaps the NBA should bring back some form of the "territorial draft" of years past. It might help to give many teams,and thus the league, more stability. Wouldn't that be a good thing? ------------------ There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.
A territorial draft would be silly. Stick to the way it is. These guys are professionals (some more than others). If they don't like their situation, they are welcome to take less money to play elsewhere when their free agentcy comes up. ------------------
Or not play at all. The players have rights too. ------------------ Houston Rockets Forever!! In Rudy We Trust
The idea of a territorial draft is for the fans not the players. Same thing applies: when free agency rolls around, they could move to the highest bidder. But maybe keeping them close to a home fan base would help the league and the fans. They used to do it that way on a limited basis I believe. ------------------ There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.
Can someone clear one thing - Is an underclassman allowed to go back to college after he gets drafted (if he doesn't have an agent), or is the deadline to remove their name before the draft? I seem to remember Voshon Lenard or Rashard Griffith do this a while back. Also, if they do get drafted but return to college, does that same NBA team still own their rights the following draft? As for the Francis trade, seems to me the Grizz got plenty damn good return with Dickerson alone. ------------------
Who cares if Steve has no class. He's still cool and well liked. Scottie Pippen is another story. Anyone remember that whole drunk driving incident last year. Isn't it strange how bad news about the superstars never seems to infiltrate the media for long but over a year later people can still argue whether or not a draftee had class or not. ------------------ Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things!
