There are certain tasks my job requires me to do every now and then, and I really need some extra strength to perform them comfortably. And you could ask that question about just about anything physical. It's just people setting goals to improve themselves. Extra strength also provides a little bit more security. I'd like to be able to free myself from tons of rubble like Spider-Man always does.
You might think power cleans are easily mastered. NO offense, but that statement alone shows how much you know about olympic lifting. It takes years to master the true full squat forms of olympic lifts and several months to "master" the power versions. Form can always be improved, but most people end up doing some weird back extension/reverse curl sort of thing and think they learned to power clean in one day. Are you employed by Poliquin or something? Did you even look at any of the sites I listed? Poliquin is not the best source for strength training. There is no one best source, and if there was, he would be nowhere close to the top of the list. Go look up Louie Simmons and Jay Schroeder to start out with. I am not sorely confused, you are sorely brainwashed. The more you learn about strength training, the more complex and less definite you learn it is. Charles gets his athletes bigger and does focus on improving the often neglected body parts including the core, glutes, hamstrings, and VMO. I never said he is not a bad coach. You sound like a freaking advertisement for him. Recruited the world over to help win medals...lol. Please list out his long list of olympic clients. He gets a ton of publicity from David Boston, and look what's happened with him. He got too big for his frame, is constantly injured, and is more trouble than he's worth. Who cares how much he is paid. There are plenty of trainers around the world that are just as good, stop buying into the hype. Again, I never said Poliquin is not good, you're just making him out to be the God of strength training. "The best there is and there is no better" Wow...you are the ignorant one. I'm not trying to be condescending or insulting like you, but please, that is a ridiculous statement. I'm not even an expert on strength training and am a relative beginner. All I was trying to do is refer people to sites that would set them on the right path. Even if Poliquin was "THE bestest trainer in the whole universe," his site is still not very helpful. Most of his answers are like one sentence. Again, tell me what was wrong with any of the sites I listed?
The reason those sites will easily mislead people is the exact thing you yourself pointed out. Strength training is an unexact science and it is different for everyone. That is why you will find several contradictions in the same website. Charles does have short answers sometimes when he is asked a question that he can't answer without more information. I do not work for Poliquin. I wish. I can teach anyone to do a proper powerclean in one day. If you can follow directions it is that easy. Yes, obviously some people have coordination issues and I can't do anything about that. But for those who will listen and are mechanically competent, I can teach the powerclean very easy. I know this because I do it as a personal trainer. The snatch has an element of timing that requires practice to perform safely and properly and for that reason we start off with just a bar and practice form weeks before trying an actual one. Message boards are the internet equivalent of gym tips. Trying to get in shape on gym tips is a fruitless approach. You will get contradictions, misguided advice, and sometimes some things work for some but not for others. It is interesting to hear others stories but as far as basing your routine on what Big Mike said on the message boards I don't think it is a good idea. You obviously have confidence in your gym knowledge and that is good and I am sure you know alot about it, maybe more than me. But not more than Poliquin, which is why I am sending people to his site instead of trying to give them a routine. And again, all of those sites you listed are for bodybuilders, not powerlifters. An abbreviated list of current Poliquin Clients: BASEBALL SEATTLE MARINERS Edgar Martinez NEW YORK METS Mo Vaughn FOOTBALL ARIZONA CARDINALS' Adrian Wilson Thomas Jones DENVER BRONCOS Rob Moore BUFFALO BILLS Jerry Ostroski GREENBAY PACKERS Na'il Diggs HOUSTON TEXANS Jabari Issa BALTIMORE RAVENS Ehan Brooks SAN DIEGO CHARGERS David Boston OAKLAND RAIDERS Chris Hetherington JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS Jimmy Redmond HOCKEY BOSTON BRUINS Brian Rolston John Grahame Martin Lapointe Rob Zamuner CALGARY FLAMES Burke Henry Craig Conroy Robyn Regehr DETROIT REDWINGS Boyd Devereaux Darren McCarty Jason Williams EDMONTON OILERS Chris Hajt LA KINGS Jared Aulin NASHVILLE PREDATORS David Legwand Mark Eaton NEW JERSEY DEVILS Jim McKenzie PHILADELPHIA FLYERS Michael Handzus Jeremy Roenick TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING Chris Dingman OTTAWA SENATORS Wade Redden FLORIDA PANTHERS Darcy Hordichuk ST. LOUIS BLUES Al Macinnis Chris Pronger Dallas Drake Keith Tkachuk Rich Pilon Sean Hill Doug Weight TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS Gary Roberts OLYMPICS Adam Setliff Chris Thorpe Clay Ives Jud Logan TRACK & FIELD Michelle Freeman Nanceen Perry Some Testimonials from Clients - "Charles was able to pinpoint the limiting factors in my speed. Within 10 weeks of training under his guidance my strength levels soared dramatically. I went from a bodyweight of 209 lbs to a new bodyweight of 236 lbs where I am able to run a 4.27 forty yard dash." -- David Boston Wide receiver Arizona Cardinals "I have under Charles' guidance for the last four years, under which I have been selected to two Olympic teams and won the Norris Trophy for best defenseman in the league. Charles's training system emphasizes quality, not quantity of training. His methods give me the endurance to play over 30 minutes a game when needed, and the power to have the strongest slap-shot in the N.H.L. year after year." -- Al MacInnis Two time member of the Canadian Olympic Ice Hockey Team Winner of the Norris Trophy. Strongest slap-shot in the N.H.L. "After two failed attempts at returning to play in the NHL, I hired the services of Charles Poliquin to obtain the strength and conditioning levels required to protect me from further injury so I could return to play the game. Not only was I able to recover from my injury, but my level of play reached new heights. It has been four years now since I have returned to the N.H.L." -- Gary Roberts Toronto Maple Leafs "Charles has developed diets and training regimens that were specific to my needs. Within four months I was in the best shape of my life for the 11years I have in the National Hockey League. It has definitely added step to my game." -- Keith Tkachuk Three time member of the U.S. Olympic Ice Hockey Team Two time 50 goal scorer "Having taken myself to a #4 world ranking in the discus throw, I thought I had managed to sift through and apply everything from the discipline of strength training that worked. Then I met Charles. In the first three-week program, I surpassed the strength and size gains that seven years of beating my head against the wall achieved." -- Adam Setliff Medal winner in World Cup, U.S. Discus champion, Olympic Team During the more then 12 years that Charles has worked with the Canadian National Short Track Speed Skating Team, his strength, power and resistance programs combined with his dietary principles have played a big role in the development and perfection of our skaters. During that period our Ladies and Men have been 10 times World Champion, our Ladies relay team was World Champion from 1982 to 1992 and they have collected 11 Olympic Medals." -- Yves A. Nadeau Canadian National Coach 1983 to 1995 "Training under Charles was a career changing move. Besides increasing my strength and my flexibility he has improved dramatically my speed and endurance. This all lead to reaching my goal of being the best defenseman in the National Hockey League." -- Chris Pronger Two time member of the Canadian Olympic Ice Hockey Team 1st winner of both Norris and Hart trophies since Bobby Orr in 1972.
Ah, PT...It figures, haha. Did you even look at the sites I listed? NONE of them are bodybuilding sites with the exception of T-mag, but the reason I listed that one is because they have many articles contributed related to strength training including those of your beloved Poliquin. Also, the sites I listed are not just random sites. Those message boards have people that seriously know alot about strength training, not just some PTs at 24 hr. with some fluff certificate. Damn that list is so impressive. I see tons of world class athletes, international olympic athletes, and top players of the NFL, hahaha. Who are those guys? I'm just messing with you, but that list is not very impressive. I'm glad you think you can teach someone a power clean properly in one day. I've heard that line plenty, but there are so many nuances of the olympic lifts that they cannot be mastered in a day. Yes, someone can get the basic form down, but that's not what I meant. Squats, deadlifts, and oly lifts all take much time to master. All I'm saying is that the sites I listed will help someone get informed much more than Poliquin's site and that Poliquin is just one of many good coaches (who is highly regarded mainly because of publicity from Boston) but is not the number one or even one of the top guys like you assert. I still think the advice you gave on exercise choices was some of the best advice given, but it might have gone over everyone's heads anyways, lol. I wasted some time training the wrong way, so I was just trying to steer people towards better resources than I first had.
Okay, that's fine. But I should tell you that a squat is not in the olympics so I don't know why you keep mentioning that with the Olympic lifts. And I did look at the sites you listed. Elitefitness, the first one you mentioned, has the word bodybuilding about ten times on it's homepage. Nuances in a powerclean? It isn't called a powerclean for nothing. Power.... Clean..... that is all it takes. Deadlift the bar, clean it, done. Where are the nuances? I don't know why you are so hostile. I said those sites can be interesting, and you are right, a certified personal trainer does know little more than people who frequent fitness websites but Charles Poliquin has a PhD in exercise physiology. I don't want to argue with you. those sites are not going to hurt anyone. It is just that Poliquin is the best for increasing strength which Anti asked about, and I wanted him to know about the best strength site on the net. He said he cared nothing about mass or hypertrophy which you seem to be very concerned about. Poliquin is THE MAN for that.
Alright, cool. I never, ever mentioned hypertrophy or mass. Yes, elitefitness is a BB site, but I didn't recommend the site, I recommended the message board. I suggest you go download a clip of the clean and jerk and the snatch. Those are the two olympic lifts. Both involve squatting. You seriously don't know a thing about olympic lifting or how oly lifters train, do you? The power variations do not take years to develop, but are hardly something developed in a day regardless of what you say. As simple a movement as the deadlift is, there are many details that go into doing that properly as well. I have no idea how anyone who knows a thing about strength training would say Poliquin is anywhere near the best. Hell, look at Boston's lifting numbers. They're not even that impressive for someone his size that's an elite athlete. Also, if anti-sonic or whoever wants to get stronger, Poliquin's site has about 10x less info than any of the sites I mentioned. I really don't know how you got brainwashed into believing Poliquin is the best in the business, but if you want to keep believing it then go ahead. I'm not being hostile, but when someone tries to be so definitive and somewhat condescending about something they clearly don't know much about it amuses me. Anti-sonic or whoever wants to get stronger: 1. Focus on compound movements: especially Squats and deadlifts of all variations. Full back, front, and overhead squats. Regular, snatch-grip, and romanian deadlifts. 2. Don't just do bench presses, do standing overhead presses as well. Don't neglect the two planes of movement, horizontal and vertical. Do rows and pull-ups for your back, and heavy tricep work if you want to bring up your bench. 3. Don't train to failure if your goal is strength. It slows down recovery and stresses your CNS greatly. 4.Train with lower reps 3-5, with higher intensity (85-90% of 1RM, not effort) 5.Work your core with weighted exercises, not doing 100s of crunches. 6. Eat and sleep enough 7. Check out the sites I gave for more info.
Yeah, you are right... Boston is a gimp, Poliquin is hired by all those I listed because he doesn't know what he is talking about, and because you olympic lifts involve the act of squatting then it is cool that you kept saying the squat was an olympic lift. And you are right again that even though I was a competitive power lifter for three years I know nothing about how to train for olympic lifts. You on the other hand who likes to pimp the elite fitness message boards, a board filled with 15 year olds and amateurs giving other amateurs advice, know exactly what you are talking about. I am sorry, I won't say anything else. Especially after I have come across as condescending to someone who actually made a direct comment to me to start off this ridiculous dialogue. I would just hate for people to take fitness advice from amateurs. If you want good info, go to the best - Poliquin, and not a website designed to move the latest and greatest supplement or protein powder.
Are you blind, delusional, or just lack reading comprehension skills? Did I say Boston was a gimp? He's just been injured alot. Look at Poliquin's list, it's not that impressive, and as you failed to acknowledge, Boston's size is impressive, but his actual lifts are not very impressive for an elite athlete with all the resources in the world. I never said a squat was an olympic lift. I don't know what to say, you seem to be talking out of your ass and keep on insulting MY knowledge. Like, you know kid, uh, squats aren't in the olympics. REALLY? Thanks for telling me, I never knew. Squats are one of THE foundations of all oly lifters training. Being a competitive powerlifter, which I find laughable because anyone can enter a contest, has NOTHING to do with teaching olympic lifts. Did you look at elitefitness? That was one of two messageboards I recommended. Did you actually look at the forums? NO, you did not. If you did, you would see that it is not some site filled with 15 year olds. There's people posting there with 1000 lb. squats, top powerlifters and very knowledgeable people with lots of experience. And yes, they have videos to prove it. Anyway, that was one of a long list of sites which you neglected to bash without even looking at obviously. Ridiculous dialogue? You have and amazingly still are coming off as condescending although it's clear you don't have much knowledge to be so pompous with your certainty. Poliquin's site is worse for information than any one of the sites I listed. A normal person is not going to go to Poliquin in Arizona to get their information. If they wanted any of his info, they'd have to buy a book. Online info can be found that would be more than sufficient. I listed some starting points, and you ignore them, consistently jocking Poliquin like you're his little lackey. So, let's see who should stop talking: 1. Diss sites without looking at even one 2. Claiming to understand olympic lifts and teach them in a day when clearly not knowing a damn thing about them 3. Being foolish enough to think Poliquin is the best strength trainer in the world, when he is not even widely considered as one of the top, but only one of many good coaches 4. Remaining condescending and ridiculously cocky even after their expertise has been shown to be more of a minimal understanding 5. Lacking reading comprehension skills, putting words in my mouth, and recommending one of the sites with the least info on the net as one of the best I guess both you and Charles share the hyperactive ego
And your ego is totally in check. I know those sites well. Especially EF. And as for 1000 pound squats posted on internet bulletin boards - I just had a two million pound bench press. Here is one time where you mentioned squats with Olympic lifts: "Good info, but I'd recommend just doing squats and deadlifts first. It takes awhile to master form on olympic lifts, and as seen at the gym, most people don't even have remotely good form on squat or deadlifts (if they're even doing them)." Here is the second time: "I'm glad you think you can teach someone a power clean properly in one day. I've heard that line plenty, but there are so many nuances of the olympic lifts that they cannot be mastered in a day. Yes, someone can get the basic form down, but that's not what I meant. Squats, deadlifts, and oly lifts all take much time to master." You knock Poliquin, you knock the Texan's Strength Coaches, but you defend internet BBS's are a great source of fitness knowledge. And you call me condescending all while leveling personal insults and name calling at me. You need to lay off the roids dude. That is what kind of people look at those sites. People on their first cycle.
Just to show I wasn't BSing: http://www.rebeccaphelps.com/mike1000.wmv I mentioned squats with oly lifts, and your point is? I also mentioned deadlifts, but I never said either were olympic lifts. My point was you don't know much about olympic lifts and shouldn't be claiming to teach someone to master a power clean in a day. Squats and deadlifts take a while to master, so obviously something more complex like an olympic lift takes longer. Squats are one of the mainstays of olympic lift training and are part of the ONLY 2 olympic lifts there are. Then you try talking down to me like I don't know. LOL about the roids. Can you not understand when I said Poliquin is not the best, but one of many good coaches that gets alot of pub solely because of Boston. I wasn't being condescending man. I made an effort to not insult you, but you kept on talking down to me while spouting crap that you clearly knew very little about. I just thought it's funny how hard you jock Poliquin and claim that he's this amazing strength trainer when he's just one of many. I had 3 problems with what you said: 1. Poliquin is the best strength coach, like ever, dude... 2. I know alot about oly lifting and powerlifting when you don't seem to 3. All of the sites you listed suck. Focusing on one site which you clearly did not check out, and not even mentioning the others. I'm amazed that after all of this you still are condesceding and insulting. Calling me cocky, telling me that I'm on roids... Why? All I said is you lack reading comprehension skills, even in the last post with those two quotes. You still haven't shown any proof of you knowing anything. Uh, dude, I was a competitive powerlifter, uh I mean personal trainer, uh I mean Poliquin is God, uh I can teach mastery of a power clean in a day because I used to powerlift, uh yeah kid you're on roids. Face it, all I was trying to do was give a list of sites that are far more valuable than Poliquin's and you ignore those and come off as an ignorant fool. I don't even know what Antisonic's specific goals were, but you never said anything about my recommendations, while I complimented yours and you still hate.
i have a question -- its related to lifting, but a little off topic. i've been working out for a year or so. i've made some good gains over the period i've been working out. i'm at the point now where i dont really want to get any bigger. not that i look like the hulk or anything even remotely close, but i just dont want gain any more mass. i want to keep the mass i have gained and work on losing excess fat. what do you do at this point? do i lift the same poundage, but increase the reps?? or keep the same weights and the same reps?? what are you people going to do when you reach your goals?
Ok, if you want to just get stronger without gaining mass, there's a few things you can do. 1. Work with heavier weights, but have longer rest periods. Don't do anything over 5 reps. Sometimes do sets of 3, sometimes 2 & 1, but don't do the 3 & under reps too much at a intensity really close to your 1RM. There are many ways of cycling the rep schemes, but try something like 5-4-3-2-1 where the 1 rep is 95% of your 1RM. Other popular methods are 3x3 and 5x5, but 5x5 will put on mass more than you might want. The longer rest periods help you maximize your effort, but not have the fatigue that is part of creating the hypertrophy. Your muscles will become denser this way, by the way. 2. Do not train to failure. 3. Focus on compound full body movements 4. Eat your maintenance amount of calories, don't have a surplus.
I feel that goals should be obtainable and when you reach them, you set newer goals. For example, one of my goals is to bench press 250 lbs. I am close as I am up to 245 but I still have not reached 250. Long-term, I want to max out at 300 but that will probably take years. So, I think you should have short-term goals and long-term goals with the short-term ones being obtainable. tozai (or LeGrouper): Why do you keep saying NOT to train to failure?
You're saying plyometrics is better than cardio? Or is that concerning particular goals or something.
LOL... well I do appreciate all the advice. Next time I'll be sure to ask something a little less controversial. BTW, that 100 lb. improvement is amazing. Thanks for the inspiration there!
Thanks, Anti. This might sound like a dumb question, but you sat by me at the Smeg game last April. Could you tell by looking at me that I worked out? I'm asking because you know how you see some guys and you think to yourself, "I bet that dude works out". Well, other than my arms, I sometimes can't tell by looking at myself that I have "gotten big". Why - I have no idea.
Yeah, I could definitely tell. I see guys all the time at school who don't, and believe me, there's a big difference.
Training to failure stresses the CNS and slows down recovery. For a large muscle group it can take 7 or more days to be able to work it out again. For bodybuilding it's fine, but for strength and athletic training it's not a good idea at all.
So, if I work out chest once a week and do reps, say 3 sets, to failure, I am okay if I don't work chest out again that week. Is that what you mean? I guess I have never really thought about it, as I have been doing the same things that other guys in the weight room do; however, we are all toned. So, I guess that makes sense that we are doing more body-building.
