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Stoudemire "done" in Phoenix

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by ScolaIsBallin, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. acsorelle4

    acsorelle4 Member

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    I am going to skip debating his defense. What I find interesting is how many times we've all heard he's done in Phoenix. This guy is becoming the Brett Favre of the Nba, but with none of the results.
     
  2. Al Calavicci

    Al Calavicci Contributing Member

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    No one player would make me stop rooting for the Rockets...but I would not be pleased if that guy were on our team.
     
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    That's overstating it a little. He could have a had a little interest in coming to Houston and still not be willing to give up the flexibility of the free agent search. Obviously, he doesn't have a burning desire to play in Houston no matter what, but he might be interested in coming if that offer is the right.
     
  4. tiger0330

    tiger0330 Member

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    I see him reuniting with D'Antoni in NY.
     
  5. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    According to 82games.com

    Amare's opponent at PF

    efg%, pts/48, reb/48, FGA/48min

    .474, 22.8, 11.1, 19.2

    Scola's opponent at PF

    .549, 22.4, 11.9, 17.6

    Scola's opponent at PF in 2008-2009

    0.466, 19.1, 11.9, 17.6

    From this one can gather that the Rocket's team defense feel apart this past season and Scola depends heavily on it. Amare doesn't look so bad defensively when compared to Scola and Amare has never played on a team with defense as good as the Rockets had last season. Amare is much better offensively than Scola. As bad as Amare is at defense, I doubt the Rockets can find anyone established close to Amare's offensive abilities, that is a better defender. Granted, Hill or a rookie may be able to do this.
     
  6. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I agree with this. Amare is a mercenary. He wants money. That being equal, I expect he will choose the best place to play. If Knicks get someone else good, I think he'll be there. If not, I see the Rockets in okay position for him.

    I personally would like the Rockets to try to grab a wing if Bosh doesn't come.
     
  7. dbigfeet

    dbigfeet Member

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    i agree with you. Plus I dont think his offense is all that good. He seems to do alot with Nash. What happens when there is no nash
     
  8. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    The % increase in opponent's can be attributed to Yao Ming's absence. With that said, don't put Scola and Amare on equal footing because Amare is gunning for a max contract while Scola is set to make at the maximum half of that amount. Also, you can't make the assumption that Amare is leagues ahead of Scola offensively because he's had Nash spoonfeeding him all these years. When all you do is roll to the rim and catch passes, of course, your offense is gonna look great. Shawn Marion went from decent 3rd option to Chuck Hayes the moment he left PHX. I'd say someone like Stoudemire who never had to worry about creating his own shot from scratch would definitely take an offensive hit the moment he leaves Nash's side.
     
  9. BONIERO1576

    BONIERO1576 Member

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    Wow, that is completely untrue. The last twenty years the team that has won the champioship is almost always a top five defensive team. New York, Memphis, Toronto and Golden State (and us) were all in the top ten in scoring this season do you really think any of them are sniffing a champioship with their current rosters? Meawhile Boston, Orlando, LA and Cleveland were all top ten defensive teams.
     
  10. desi tmac91

    desi tmac91 Member

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    He was actually trying to play defense in the playoffs, albeit it wasn't very good, but it was still nice to see. However, there were some games where he just didn't 'feel' like showing up (see the Lakers series).

    Bottom line: I don't want him but I wouldn't get pissed off if we did either (as long as we don't overpay).
     
  11. Steve_Francis_rules

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    You are absolutely wrong here.

    Chicago was 1st, 1st, and 9th in offense in their last three championship years.

    The Lakers have been 5th, 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd in offense in their championship years.

    The Celtics were 10th in offense two years ago.

    San Antonio was 11th, 7th, 8th, and 5th in offense in their championship years.

    Miami was 7th in offense in 2006.

    Detroit was the one real outlier, ranking 18th in offense when they won the championship.

    The truth is that the champion is almost always top 10 in offense and defense.
     
  12. BEAT LA

    BEAT LA Member

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    Amare
    Bosh
    Beasley
    Wade
    Johnson

    Bench = D league scrubs. Any chance of this happening?
     
  13. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    There's actually only 3 such cases the past 15 years where a championship team ranked in the top 10 in defensive rating managed to be ranked right-at or outside of the top 10 in offensive rating

    Barely making the Top 10 in offensive rating:

    2008 Boston Celtics (10th)

    Not even in the Top 10 in offensive rating:
    2004 Detroit Pistons (18th)
    1994 Houston Rockets (17th)


    To even go further:

    2009 Lakers (3rd in offense/6th in defense) beat Magic (11th in offense/1st in defense)
    2008 Celtics (10th in offense/1st in defense) beat Lakers (3rd in offense/5th in defense)
    2007 Spurs (5th in offense/2nd in defense) beat Cavs (18th offense/4th defense)
    2006 Heat (7th in offense/9th in defense) beat Mavericks (1st in offense/11th in defense)
    2005 Spurs (8th in offense/1st in defense) beat Pistons (17th in offense/3rd in defense)
    2004 Pistons (18th in offense/2nd in defense) beat Lakers (6th in offense/8th in defense)
    2003 Spurs (7th in offense/3rd in defense) beat Nets (18th in offense/1st in defense)
    2002 Lakers (2nd in offense/7th in defense) beat Nets (17th in offense/1st in defense)
    2001 Lakers (2nd in offense/21st in defense) beat 76ers (13th in offense/5th in defense)

    1994 Rockets (15th in offense/2nd in defense) beat Knicks (16th in offense/1st in defense)

    Basically, from what I can see, as long as your defense is as good as your offense (and vice versa), you have a better chance of winning than, say, overloading one side of the court while leaving the other side in mediocrity. The two years where an offensive rating and a defensive rating didn't mean much was in 2008 and 2004 where the Celtics and Pistons literally rode their defense to the championship. Otherwise, all of the championship teams in the past decade have been pretty much balanced out on both ends of the court.



    As far as Amare and why an athletic big man like him doesn't play defense, well, it's just because he lacks the desire to.
     
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  14. Laozi

    Laozi Member

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    Interesting thinking about CWebb going to the Kings and playing for Rick at a similar point in his career. The circumstances would of course be different, but I'm pretty sure Stoudemire would be similarly put out if he ended up in Houston, but also just as productive. For about 5 yrs. Houston would become a Mecca for offensive basketball and get the annual right of being the team the eventual champion had to really "dig deep" to get out of an 0-2 hole.
     
  15. DarylMoney

    DarylMoney Member

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    Hard to imaging him getting max dollars...but he will

    There will be a team that put all their eggs in a basketball hoping for James, Bosh, etc and when they don't get one of the top tier free agents will overpay someone like Amare.

    Seems like something the Knicks would do...
     
  16. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    Difference is that Webber had better ball handling skills, better passing skills, and rebounded better than Amare.
     
  17. Codeo

    Codeo Member

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    DO NOT WANT. If you're signing this guy for how much he wants, you're not on your way to a championship team. Bosh > Scola > Stoudemire
     
  18. Laozi

    Laozi Member

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    Yeah, but Amare is way better around the rim. CWebb was really smooth for a big man, 15ft. away from the rim with a streaky jumper.
     
  19. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    Amare's game the past couple of seasons post-knee surgery has been predicated on mostly PnRs and shooting 15 footers. If Nash was out of the equation, it pretty much leaves him as *drumroll* a jump shooter.
     
  20. meh

    meh Member

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    Well, I was hoping the original poster look up these data himself, to realize how wrong he was. Obviously 3 out of 15 isn't nearly close to "most cases". And even that's offset by that weird Lakers team where they played some god awful defense in the regular season, but turned it up a notch in the postseason.

    I guess the only thing one can say about defense over offense is that you can always "hope" for going on a good offensive streak in the playoffs. A mediocre team with an incredible defense can always get hot at the right time and simply bulldoze through the playoffs. Whereas a great offensive team with mediocre defense can't really say the same thing. Unless, of course, the only reason said team has a bad defense is due to coasting in the regular season(i.e. 2001 Lakers, 1995 Rockets).
     

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