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stopping huge global movement of people, is a stronger world police needed?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Faust, May 22, 2015.

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  1. Faust

    Faust Member

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    civil war around the world made 51 million people homeless in 2013 and the number of ppl wanting asylum almost hit 1 million last yr which is the highest in 20 yrs. they just keep coming. international law says you can't stop ppl from seeking asylum but europe destroying ships in libya does that. either the law needs to be changed or europe is breaking the law. do we need to build stronger walls and borders and have more surveillance like elysium... or do we have to make a stronger world police through UN to stop the root problems making these people run away from their shetty countries in the first place? unless every human is tagged like cattle and those tags can't be hacked, i don't option 1 can work. so we have to be interventionist like option 2. i think if a lot of countries are interventionist through the UN, it's not as bad if only america had to do it.

    in 1939, a ship of 900 refugees was denied entry into america, canada, and cuba. that ship went back where it come from. it was filled with jews who got gassed. we turned away from helping those guys and look what happened. isn't the same shet happening in these places? ppl trying to find a better life? aren't most free market economists for open borders?
     
    #1 Faust, May 22, 2015
  2. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    In the present age the only thing that will stop tens or even hundreds of millions moving from the impoverisment is global justice or increased militarism. The US leaders and the rest of the international elite has largely voted for militarism. Hopefully we can change that.

    Hell, even in the 1800's many risked starvation and disease to come through
    Ellis Island.
     
    #2 glynch, May 22, 2015
    Last edited: May 22, 2015
  3. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Increased capitalism will reduce poverty.

    Immigration from Mexico has come down because they opened up their economy and have more opportunity there.

    There are many free market economists who support open borders. And the US is still the prime destination after all. But its not realistic IMO.

    "Global justice" is a code word for what is happening in Venezuela. Glad we are getting to see what a failure that is
     
    #3 Mr. Clutch, May 22, 2015
    Last edited: May 22, 2015
  4. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Standard BS Reagan'esque response.
     
    #4 CometsWin, May 22, 2015
  5. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Since when this is such an urgent problem. Mankind always moves. This has been a problem when we started having borders. The Jewish people were gassed by the Nazi. It's really a difficult logical place to be in. Do you follow your moral or the well-being of yourself and a few connected to you more closely. Everybody has different opinions. Let's leave at that and at the political system.
    The law is you don't have to do anything when you see another is great danger.
     
    #5 YallMean, May 22, 2015
  6. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Still waiting for trickle down. haha
     
    #6 glynch, May 22, 2015
  7. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Will it also reduce rampant slaughter and mayhem?

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2015/jan/03/arab-spring-migrant-wave-instability-war

    the example of Nigeria may be informative for that myth

    http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-nigeria-economy-boko-haram-20140817-story.html#page=1

     
    #7 Northside Storm, May 22, 2015
  8. Remii

    Remii Member

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    It probably has more to do with the Obama administration setting a record on deporting people. More BCP and ICE agents and other personnel on the border. There has been a reduction in crime because people don't want to risk their lives being drug mules. And the job market has been drying up in America for immigrant labor workers (at least for the ones not being brought over as slaves). It probably has more to do with those things than capitalism.
     
    #8 Remii, May 23, 2015
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    "Increased" capitalism increases wealth however it also increases income disparity.
     
    #9 fchowd0311, May 23, 2015
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    #10 Mr. Clutch, May 23, 2015
  11. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    In general I don't disagree for the us. But not globally
     
    #11 Mr. Clutch, May 23, 2015
  12. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    It's part of it. As far as slaves, there's human trafficking but that's for sex not for jobs.

    The people who come to work do so voluntarily and send quite a bit of money back home
     
    #12 Mr. Clutch, May 23, 2015
  13. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    LOL.

    http://saharareporters.com/2013/02/07/nigerian-economic-order-titanic-injustice-obi-ebuka-onochie

    http://zedbooks.co.uk/node/20328

    "Arab nations" and "Nigeria" are two of the least capitalist countries? As defined by who? lol

    The Economic Freedom of the World: 2013 Annual Report defines the United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Bahrain, Qatar, and Lebanon as among the 40 most economically free in the world--in fact, UAE, Jordan and Bahrain rank above the United States.

    Nigeria and China rank neck-in-neck. Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Oman, and Kuwait are within the top 80.

    It has certainly brought a lot of stability to their respective regions. More capitalism can only equal more fun!
     
    #13 Northside Storm, May 23, 2015
  14. False

    False Member

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    Northside you don't seem to understand. The answer to everything and anything is capitalism. If things don't go well it is because they haven't had enough capitalism. No specific policy prescriptions are needed other than more capitalism. Faith is all that is needed.
     
    #14 False, May 23, 2015
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Well, do you have a better solution? Communism?
     
    #15 Mr. Clutch, May 23, 2015
  16. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Github-like collaborative economies, open source science/technology, learning economies that imply a more social democratic bent with stronger welfare states and better focus on health and education.

    FYI, you're posting on a forum built on open source technology, with a network of protocols built on open science.
     
    #16 Northside Storm, May 23, 2015
  17. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    That seems nuts to me to have those countries rank so high. Its not like you could move there and open a business like you can in western countries


    Here's another list.

    http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
     
    #17 Mr. Clutch, May 23, 2015
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    I'm fine with stronger welfare like the scandinavian countries have. Seems to work much better than our patchwork safety net
     
    #18 Mr. Clutch, May 23, 2015
  19. Faust

    Faust Member

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    i think you agree with what needs to be done then. the un needs to become more stronger and it has to intervene in other countries business because if there is no interference millions of people will keep trying to come to developed countries. maybe you call that global justice. i just know the current situation is partly because we bombed the hell out of libya without replacing it with a legit country and not intervening with the syrians, ethiopians, nigerians means they use libya as a springboard to come to europe and overhwhelm its jobs and welfare.
     
    #19 Faust, May 23, 2015
  20. Faust

    Faust Member

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    i don't about china's laws but in some states you have a samaritan duty to help someone in need. countries need samaritan duties do. what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
     
    #20 Faust, May 23, 2015
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