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stop trying to force feed yao in the fourth

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by thacabbage, Feb 26, 2009.

  1. pmac

    pmac Member

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    In general, you want your best perimeter playmaker creating for you down the stretch. This is an issue because Ron is the best perimeter player and he can make it happen in the clutch, except he isn't good at making plays for others.

    I think Brooks has to be the guy to make the right decisions. If we can't get it to Yao he has be aggressive going to the rim, if Ron is hot he needs to find him, if Scola has good position he needs to get it to him.
     
  2. AggNRox

    AggNRox Member

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    i've already said you tried to be smarter than ra and his coaching staffs. they watched, re-watched, analyzed, and re-analyzed games many many times. here is no comparison.

    did you watch the last game? did you hear matt and bill screaming in the 4th qt? then you should know i am talking about.
     
  3. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    I have to respectfully disagree. After watching him for seven years, it's pretty clear he will never be a clutch go-to option. I'll get crucified for these comments by his fans, but it's well documented that he struggles in fourth quarters.

    that's fine and well. i'm not saying we should trade the guy (as I argued in my other thread last week), but we should be smart enough to not keep trying the same thing, aimlessly expecting different results.

    i agree with you that our chances this postseason don't look too good for this very reason, but the best we can hope for is to try and build on some relative amount of success. if that means taking your lumps and letting brooks experience his growing pains, that's fine. we aren't winning the title this year anyways. but the worst thing we can do is keep trying the same thing when it clearly doesn't work.
     
  4. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    That's a terrible idea. The idea is to open up the paint and use that to establish the perimeter. Ron and Scola are great paint/post players. Feed them if Yao's not open.

    And don't worry about feeding Yao in the fourth. Play the offense and everybody will get their touches.
     
  5. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    i don't even know what this means. no comparison to what? are you implying that coaches are infallible? let's fold the BBS up then.

    uhh yeah, they were screaming for the team to stop trying to force it in.
     
  6. pmac

    pmac Member

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    What is the offense, specifically?
     
  7. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    1) Cut hard without the ball.
    2) Keep the ball moving to break down the defense.

    The big problem the Rockets had in the fourth was falling back into old bad habits--everybody standing around while one guy dribbled, dribbled, dribbled either waiting for Yao to get open or for an opportunity to create his own shot.

    Keep the ball moving. Keep cutting hard into the paint. If Yao's not open let him come out, get the ball, kick it back and try to re-post. Don't freaking stand still.
     
  8. rockmanslim

    rockmanslim Member

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    I think maybe you can add coaches to this list as well. For instance, I have no clue why Larry Brown didn't have Okafor front Yao all game long. Same is true for any coach/player. Is it a macho thing? I don't get it. Did Les' cunning plan to destroy all game tape of that Memphis game succeed?
     
  9. ibm

    ibm Member

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    fronting creates holes for the defense. you need the right personnel to do that, too. when the team in offense knows how to properly exploit it, the other team has serious problems. that's why you don't see a team do that often, or for 48 minutes.

    for everything in bball, there is a counter.
     
  10. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    If it were that easy to neutralize Yao he would be averaging 5 points a game instead of 20.

    The Rockets can beat the fronting defense on Yao. If the other team throws out a fronting defense all the time the Rockets will just adjust. Change things up and you might be able to confuse the Rockets, throw them off balance a little. If you don't know a lot about basketball you might assume that both teams run the same offense/defense throughout the course of the entire game when the truth is that basketball is all about adjustments.
     
  11. happyricky

    happyricky Member

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    RS, you made an excellent point here that the Rockets should practice as much as possible to beat fronting Yao in the regular season. If we don't have a solution by the end of April, we will be in a desperate situation (because the fronting defense pretty much takes our best player out of game).
    Let's see how they respond tonight against Cavs. :)
     
  12. pmac

    pmac Member

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    Well, when Yao is fronted that takes one person out of the offense and Shane usually camps out in the corner so that only leaves you 2 guys to move off the ball. In the clutch, teams will pack the paint on the rockets. So, this makes it difficult for a Ron and Scola to find open spaces in the paint.

    This is a common them in the NBA. That's why you see Parker/Ginobili with the ball in their hand in the clutch, Rondo/Pierce, Nelson/Turkoglu and on and on. Moving the ball on offense disrupts the defense but if the defense is committed to allowing outside shots and clogging the paint this method is not as useful. Sometimes you need to take your man off the dribble.
     
  13. AggNRox

    AggNRox Member

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    you vs rox coaching staffs.

    if i use a 1-to-10 scale of knowing bball. 10 is highest. seriously, i don't want to embarrass you so i give you 1 to satisfy you. do you know where our coaches are at? they should be at 10.

    really? we must watch different games on Tuesday. please watch the game rox vs jailblazers again.
     
  14. landryfans

    landryfans Member

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    If rockets cant figure out a way to make Yao effective at clutch time, the team is due to doomed at playoff.

    last night, Yao scored 3fg at 4th quarter, 6mins left, blazer starts to fronting Yao, since then, 10 possessions, rockets make 0fg, almost lost a double digital lead. AB still has long way to go, his play at last 6mins is awful.

    When Yao scores >20pts, rockets 22win-2loss, Pass to yao is not a personal issue, it needs team effort, if rockets fail to do so, to do your superstar effective at clutch time, you cant win a playoff serie.
     
  15. ibm

    ibm Member

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    i doubt they'd front yao much tonight. maybe with the brizilian flopper. ben wallace is too short and big z is even slower than yao.
     
  16. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    When Yao is fronted he can still be effective by sealing his defender and getting the ball in the paint. Or he can spin/cut to get open. If Shane camps in the corner and doesn't move then he's not playing the offense, is he?

    If the defense is committed to clogging the paint and taking outside shots then you don't need to create off the dribble, do you? You can just take open jump shots from the perimeter.

    The reason the Spurs, Celts and Magic are PG dependent teams is that that's their style of basketball. That's not the Rockets style and as long as Adelman's the head coach he gets to decide what exactly that style is.
     
  17. pmac

    pmac Member

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    Yao is incapable of doing these things quickly and consistently enough. That is why the fronting defense is more effective on him than any other star i've ever seen.
    Not the offense you speak of but he's been doing this the whole time Adleman's been here. I doubt Rick has a problem with it, since it has not changed in a year and a half.

    The defense is not just standing in the paint, that would be silly. They are committed to sagging in the paint to prevent post scoring. On the drive they will sag back but they are cheating off the perimeter shooters at every chance.

    Those teams are not PG dependent. I named those teams specifically because their teams feed off the post just like us but when it is crunch time they depend on the perimeter players to create for them. The Spurs operate around Duncan all game long but when it is late in the 4th and teams commit to stopping him at all costs it falls upon Tony Parker and Manu to break down the defense and create offense.
     
  18. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    You just made a point, Brooks just dribbled too much, the ball was not been moving as the other games. I saw Yao was taken of the game by the fronting, but did not see the guard to force feed Yao, that is different issues in last game.

     
  19. Xsatyr

    Xsatyr Member

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    Bc they do not have the energy to play Yao 48 minutes like that. It takes a lot of energy to front someone effectively so they do it in the final minutes knowing the game is almost over.
     
  20. Xsatyr

    Xsatyr Member

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