Because you are having such a difficult time understanding this, let me once more break it down for you in simple English. "Argument" not as in 'premise', but 'argument' as in, the main debate of this thread occurred a few pages in, where myself and a few others had a heated discussion with Dakota, badgerfan, and a few others regarding whether this team could win with Yao as the primary option, whether there was any solution to the fronting defense, and whether they needed to incorporate new options for these situations. That is why I said to disregard the title. Because the title was in reference to the act of stubbornly trying to force the ball into Yao, something that did not occur tonight, and something that was not even the main discussion of the thread. The thread was bumped as a follow-up to the main discussion. Get it now? Good. The main premises still stand. Though I haven't heard the audio yet, the comments from the newest audio thread indicate that they are saying they have a plan to beat the fronting defense but just didn't execute it properly. I really don't know what to say to this as if they haven't figured out how to execute it properly by now, that won't change in the playoffs. It's very disappointing that nothing else has been developed in practice over the course of the season. You can't just keep blaming it on a lack of execution every time you fail when there has been one constant for 7 years now - Yao is just simply too immobile to beat this scheme. Perhaps they don't want to sound defeatist in interviews, but it seems they aren't even aware of the reality of the situation. They just reverted to running around like chickens with their heads cut off once more when the fronting began which made it appear like they hadn't ever even seen it before. Obviously the primary objective this summer will be acquiring a wing scorer, but that's not of relevance at the moment. What I worry is that Nate McMillan is as savvy as any coach in the league. He will front Yao - something he didn't do at all in our wins this years? Will we unravel and blame it on a lack of execution or will we have other counter plays ready? And might it be too late to feel confident about these plays as the season has ended.
If Portland can successfully front Yao they win the series. If they don't front Yao Houston wins the series. It is that simple.
I think that LaMarcus Aldridge did front Yao for a period of time in the last game. Yao also played his best game against the Blazers this season in that game. Facing the Oden and Przybilla combo, like most others have pointed out, is probably a good result with all things considered.
I just remembered that they actually did front him with Aldridge in the fourth quarter one game. So they are aware of its effectiveness, but can't burn Aldridge's energy the whole game. We will have to just hope that Pryz/Oden are too slow to front Yao the entire game. But you can bet the house they will be fronting with Aldridge in the fourth. Adelman needs to have something ready for this inevitability - and not Aaron Brooks and Ron Artest running around with their heads cut off jacking up 3's and then saying 'we have a plan but we weren't able to execute it' after the game. There just needs to be some semblance of a clear cut plan.
I think a Yao-centric offense is definitely capable of winning a championship. There just needs to be a viable 2nd option when Yao is off/tired/fronted. The Rockets have combated the front in a variety of ways (some more effective than others): swing ball repost right block, high screen drive, Yao seal out post guard drive, Artest dribble jack, PF top key pass low or jump shot. The problem is when the team (I mean everyone) is hesitant, indecisive, and slow with their actions. Yao isn't the quickest of players and most post plays with him are general slow developing. You combine that with a defensive front and you end up with having to react and adjust with a dwindling shot clock. You have to be smart, fast, and decisive. Whatever the Rockets decide on running to counter the front is fine...the problems happen when they're not sure and they end up wasting time and it ends up being an off-balance Artest jack or 24 sec violation or turnover. In facing Portland, their Centers (Pryz and Oden) are a huge part of their rotation because of their great rebounding, shot-blocking and interior defense. They also play behind centers because they're not quick and agile like a lot of the hybrid modern post men. Oden and Pryz do not front Yao because Yao is able to fend off that body type. When Portland fronted Yao in the last game, it was a temporary thing to get Portland back in the game, and while it worked somewhat, I don't think Portland will go too long with that plan. They don't want Pryz and Oden leaving Scolandry consistently open and if they went small ball as Aldridge the 5 and Outlaw/Fry/Batum the 4, then the Rockets would have a huge rebounding advantage. As Aldridge's fantasy owner all year, I will tell you that this guy is very frustrating when it comes to putting up boards. He has the potential to go 24-12 every night but many times comes up with 24 - 4. I've stated this before, but I really think they should just let Yao fire away from the top of the key 4 times in a row as another offense-of-last-resort in response to the front. Just my opinion.
That's not what I said. I never blame poor execution on a single player. It's not Yao's fault that the team is relying on him to be something he's not. I just look at it from a historical perspective. How often are elite offenses built around a pivot man? And how many of those pivot men were roughly at the same level as Yao? Really, if you go through, most very good offenses are not center-oriented. It's not that I'm blaming Yao. It's just very difficult to build an elite offense around a player like him. I wouldn't suggest building an offense around Artest or Aaron Brooks either, so don't take offense. You're asking the wrong question. Look at the top offensive teams in the league: Blazers, Suns, Lakers, Cavs, Mavs, Celtics. How many of those teams, in the fourth quarter, are relying on their center to run their offense? Well, there's Phoenix, but they also have an elite PG that mostly runs the show and makes the decisions. All the rest have an elite wing player that they can run the offense through (on offense, Dirk is more like a wing than a pivot man). Actually, you can back historically and look at it. How often are the really good offensive teams build around a center, and is Yao capable of (more or less) doing the things those centers did.
If Yao is fronted, he has to PUNISH them on the offensive glass and stop hanging his head, find other ways to use your 7 foot 6 inch body to help the team. DD
I'm beginning to think that is the plan because it is exactly what happens every time a team starts fronting Yao.
I KNOW HOW YOU BEAT THE FRONTING DEFENSE YOU REVERSE PIVOT AND SEAL. THE GUY IS 7 6 FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. CHARMIN TISSUE CAN PUT UP A BETTER FIGHT THAN HIM. AFTER ONE MORE YEAR OF THIS CRAP ITS TIME TO GO A DIFFERENT DIRECTION. I WAS TAUGHT HOW TO BEAT A FRONT IN HIGH SCHOOL. REVERSE PIVOT SWING THE BALL TO THE OTHER SIDE AND POST MAN SEAL. FRUSTRATED I AM SPOILED BECAUSE OF THE DREAM AND WE HAVE TWO CENTERS COMBINED NOW TO EQUAL HIM.
Guys who here is surprised at the outcome? Dallas started become a Hot team near the end of the season and had something to prove. We always have problems with them just like with Utah. We don't match up properly and always "ALWAYS" need someone other than Yao to step up big hitting big shots. I've said this to a couple of my co-workers for the past month. " Once the playoffs start we are going to be in big trouble when they clamp down on Yao" Double, Front, play super aggresive. Yao cannot overcome these types of player or styles. We see it time and time again hoping for a different outcome. We need legit shooters on this team or a super aggresive attack the basket type of player to counter that double team. So here are some links to help you understand what I'm talking about. SG with great FG% http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/b...ence=NBA&year=season_2008&sort=21&qualified=1 G with great FG% http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/b...ence=NBA&year=season_2008&sort=21&qualified=1 We have nobody even on those list. And when I'm talking about super aggresive I'm not talking about Von Wafer type of player but a Kobe,D'Wade,Lebron esque type... Granted there is nobody out there to be had like that so I won't argue as to who we should get. But Von cannot draw double teams and break through them with a high FG% shot on a day by day basis. Sure he will have his moments but there are guys around the league who have there moments coming off the bench as well. I'm not saying to trade or get rid of the guy but what I"m talking about is what we lack. If we can't adjust why can the player doing the inbound pass pretend he is shooting but actually just doing a bounce pass from the backboard. That is Yao's only way to get the ball. We will have a very hard time with Portland if they just know all they have to do is Play super aggresive with Yao, Front him, or double team him. It's sad that Yao isn't able to catch a lob or get open to help the team. But he is what he is and were better with him than without him.. Double edge sword baby. I hope the Rockets get far or at least keep the game interestings. (Meaning competitive and not looking like a team that doesnt have a clue.) Just fight everynight and win or lose I will be happy.
Hate the all caps, love the point. But, I think Yao has a problem sealing his man....because his center of gravity is about chest level of other players. I think they get leverage...much like Hanzlik used to do to Sampson. DD
McGrady was a top 10 player, and Yao was a very good second option, back in 04/05. We also had solid, veteran guard play that season from Bobby Sura, David Wesley, and Jon Barry. That's enough to make you a very good offensive team, even when the coach is JVG. Here's a plot of our offensive efficiency, relative to the league average, over the 04/05, 06/07, 07/08, and 08/09 seasons. It's a 10-game moving average, so each point reflects performance over a good stretch of games (the preceding 10 games). A rating of 100 is equal to the league average that season, below 95 is very bad, above 105 is very good, above 110 is awesome. I didn't add any markers to the graphs that show when certain key players (Yao, McGrady) were injured/missing. That's easy to look up.
You know I can roll my eyes just as well for the stupidity of your argument. I will try one time and see if you understand this: 1) The team "force fed" Yao (according to you) in some games in the past, turned the ball over a lot and lost. You ran around like a chicken with its head cut-off and proclaimed: "Don't force feed Yao". 2) The team stopped force feed Yao (like last night). Could not do anything else right late in the game and lost. You jumped up and down and declared," it did not work, we need another wing player". 3) The next day when the Rockets win a game, you disappear. Let me sum it up for you. You talked as if you knew something about basketball but you don't. You really don't. There are many ways to build a team. If you wish for a team that has Howard, Garnett, James, Allen, Paul, don't hold your breath. Did you get to watch the game where we shackled Lebron James? Did everyone from Cleveland run around like chickens without head after that game and demand their team to be rebuilt? Each team has its strengths and weaknesses. We have what we have, go to war with it, don't cry and whine like a little baby every time we lose a game.
My bad with the all caps. I am at work and we type our orders in all caps.But I was defeated when T mac went down. My championship dream fadded away that day.
Why can't they run that play where carl last night hesitated but end driving to the hoop with an easy layup? The center was out of position and if carl was to be stop by other defenders then he should be able to kick it to the weak side for a wide open 3.
i say this again (which you probably chose not to respond) - one can easily make a case that the reason why our offense is not elite is it never has truly been a yao-centric offense. i don't take offense on negative comments about yao. leebigez suspects i'm on yao's payroll but i am not. i just thought comments about any player, sans the post-game rant, should be fair. i was surprised you had comments such as yao is turnover-prone which is not true. and what was the point of you by saying we only have "limited ways to use yao"? did shaq has a 18 footer jumper? that kinda comment i can ignore from some apparently not very knowledgeable fans. every team has a different make up. i don't think many team can simulate the suns' 7-ticks-or-less. that many teams don't build their offense around their bigs (probably due to the lack of good bigs) doesn't mean we shouldn't. after all, half of the championships have been won with a dominating big.
I honestly don't know why I'm taking the time to respond to you when it's clear you don't operate within the realm of basic logic. You are either real dumb or just haven't read the thread. I will assume it's a combination of the two. I didn't just say this after last night's game - this has been a common theme. It's also amusing (and quite an indictment upon your lack of intelligence) that you somehow have derived that the only alternative to force feeding yao is just NOT force feeding him. the concept here, which shouldn't be this difficult to understand, is that not going to yao doesn't mean just running around aimlessly jacking up 3's. what i have been saying is that there needs to be some clear cut strategy for these late game situations. again, i don't know why i'm wasting my time with this if you can't make the simple distinction between games in which yao is fronted and games in which he is not. that's the whole issue here! it's not about wins and losses, it's about countering a real problem that has plagued the rockets. do you seriously think a 20 point win over the hornets or magic in which neither team tried to front yao is applicable for analytical purposes within this discussion? seriously? if you can't make that distinction, then i really can't help you at all - you're a lost cause. the test variables are games when yao is fronted or close games. the san antonio game that saw scola flashing to the basket was very impressive but it appears that didn't make it into the playbook. this might be the most brilliant rebuttal i've seen in a long time. "you think you know about basketball, but you don't. nevermind the nonsensical gibberish i just posted above, you really don't." thanks, i'll use this from now on. please disregard the rest of my post as you have effectively destroyed my argument with this brilliant quip. Umm ok. The fact that you fail to see that every one of those teams mentioned has a perimeter scorer, and that Orlando has struggled once they lost their primary perimeter scorer speaks volumes in regards to your analytical capabilities. but personnel can be discussed in the offseason. would it have been so difficult after the trade deadline to have strategized some semblance of a plan when yao is taken out of the game? a simple lowry/landry pick and roll? any semblance of a coherent offense beyond artest pull up 3's would be welcome. of course, up above you made clear your subscription to the notion that NOT force feeding yao can only have one manifestation and isn't inclusive of actually running other plays - that the only two options are force feed yao or don't force feed yao and act clueless. LOL! i wish i was making this up but i'm not and you even took the time to distinguish this central premise of yours in numerical point form. Yes, because Lebron James being shackled has been such a common theme in Cleveland's season this year, Cavs fans should have been concerned. If you fail to see the clear distinction between a team that has consistently crumbled when yao ming has been neutralized in close games and a cavs team that has steamrolled through its competition and lost that one particular game do to an uncharacteristically bad performance by james, again, i just can't help you out here bro. actually, here's a clue for you. teams have strengths and weaknesses. but the good ones identify those weaknesses and try to rectify the problem. especially when it's not just a weakness but is this team's achilles heel and will likely be its undoing. but brilliant prescription on your part - don't whine about the fronting problem and just go to war with it. absolutely brilliant. it appears adelman has been taking your advice as it's clear they haven't done a damn thing about it. please, i'm begging you, don't reply to me, because i really don't have time for your nonsensical rantings. grow up, get a clue, read through the thread, be enlightened, and move on.
this is probably the most frustrating concept to advocate. any criticism of the gameplan/system/execution due to unrealistic expectations upon yao is unnecessarily interpreted as an indictment upon yao. and then the yao apologists go to work.
You'd like to get the last word in, don't you? I have a rebuttal for every little rant you have as well but I will pass. For your part, if you don't like this team the way it's built then leave, come back some other years.
