after a bad game,we alawys said "we don not make right choice,we should pass ball to Yao",but in fact ,each time ,either YAO was ignored or we pass ball to YAO in wrong time!
what you just quoted from me was in response to the notion by badgerfan that circumstances don't change in the fourth quarters of games and that teams can win at a high level in the NBA without a player that can break down the defense. hence the the sarcastic "need anymore evidence." as for everyone else, you guys are missing the point. when i say don't "force feed" him, i'm not talking about solely trying to force the ball into him. i'm talking about stubbornly insisting on running every play through yao and wasting precious clock. it's obvious that he is rendered completely useless by a fronting defense. establish something different. my main point that arose through discussion later in the thread is that it's absolutely necessary to have someone that can break down a defense. as to those of you who are insisting it was the guards' fault for not getting him the ball in those small windows, what the hell have you guys been watching? anyone who doesn't realize that even moderate pressure on yao almost always results in a turnover either hasn't been watching him for the last seven years or is in china right now with a subjective view. he has poor hands and terrible reaction time. unless he has his man completely behind him with no defenders cheating, it's going to be a turnover. i don't know what some of you have been watching.
If you watched the game last night, in 4th quarter, there were a few times when Yao DID have his man completely behind him, like for a second. Even in the last possession, after Ron missed the 3pt shot and got the ball back, Yao was clearly not fronted and right under the basket. Don't always blame Yao for not being able to hold the ball with his single hand. Beating fronting requires both the perimeter guy and Yao to be on same page when that instant moment comes. Yao did his best to hold his defender behind him. When the moment is right, just pass the ball to him. Give them some time. AB and Ron haven't played a lot games with Yao in 4th quarter. I believe they can figure it out.
the center in NBA working like wrestling needs to save energy early by resting Yao in the first quarter like coach VG always doing to make him more efficiency in the final quarter! Rockets paly Yao for more minutes now and need a better bench center player since Mutabo is too old and Chuck is a one dimention player.
I rewatched the fourth quarter. Some observations: Yao didn't get a single touch when he returned to the game. There was maybe one good opportunity to get Yao the ball which the Rockets missed -- it happened in the last minute when Artest missed two 3-pointers. That wasn't just Artest's fault, but also Battier's (as soon as he got the offensive rebound, he didn't even look towards the basket even though he was open and Yao was right underneath with his man sealed). At the beginning of the fourth, Yao got two touches. In one he drew a double team, and the play eventually resulted in an open 3-pointer for Aaron in the corner. He missed. On another, Yao got the ball and received no double team. He backed his man down all the way to the basket, but was called for an offensive foul before he could reverse pivot and score. In all, there were 13 offensive possessions with Yao on the floor, and we scored on two of them. On neither of those scores did Yao touch the ball or draw other defenders to help facilitate the score. When Yao was sitting due to foul trouble, we scored on 4 out of 10 possessions.
Did we even try to free up Yao in some way, like say through a screen or maybe have AB or Ron drive towards the basket? From what I recalled, there wasn't a lot of ball movement going around. It seemed to me that they looked at Yao, and saw Miller draped all over him, and then went into some iso plays. Remember Yao had 5 fouls so I think he was hesitant to get physical with Miller. My memory of the sequence of events may be foggy though because I tune in and out thinking this game was in the bag.
i re-watched the painful 4th quarter, too; and got basically the same thing. that possession where ron shot 2 3's in a row still makes me mad. we were only down 2, not 3. i can't believe it if that's what was called by adelman after a timeout. and half of it is shane's fault. he's in a perfect position to score or draw a foul, yet his instinct at that time was to quickly throw the ball to ron for another 3 pointer. err...
this made me feel better about your post, though the "force feed" in the title of your post was misleading. but i do agree that when they are fronting, sometimes we need to "ignore" yao and run other plays to make them pay - depending on the situation. having someone break down the defense, yes, but it's just one of the several options. plus, you have to consider the passes that never came when yao did have his man pinned; and the ref factor.
i apologize as i agree, the phrase "force feed" probably wasn't the best description and hence has led to a lot of the confusion in this thread. i meant it as inclusive of not only forcing it into him but the very idea of having to go to him at all e.g. wasting shot clock trying to get him into position. they simply need to go away from yao when he is fronted and look to run plays for other people. scola/brooks pick and roll would be the best option, IMHO. i think these posts especially fegan's article calling for countering the front are rather delusional and oblivious to the reality of the situation. yao is simply too slow to operate any of these counter moves. too much idealism on this board regarding this issue. however, my original bump last night following the game was in response to a side discussion which evolved over the course of the thread regarding the necessity of a great penetrating wing. i cited last night's game as further evidence that these are a necessity for winning in the NBA. that's a bigger issue though that can only be addressed on the personnel side. for discussion's sake, we simply need to be developing other plays to generate offense in late game situations. yao isn't the end-all-be-all.
Well if it was up to me Yao should have been sitting... the whole 4th... some say KG was a second option type player... but look at what he has turned into... in Boston... Yao should have done what KG did with Big Baby... when he was forced to come back into a game in the 4th earlier this year... come out and berated all the players for not holding a lead... sadly that will never happen and this team will continue to blow big leads... fronting or not/ force feed or not.... this team if it really is as good as we think it is...should have won without having to go inside out.... the last 6 minutesof the game with a 17 point lead...
Yao shoots fts great and that helps but you are right give it to the smallest guy on the court who couldn't defend as well as Alston. I don't guess RON ARTEST should have a responsibility for this team? We have inconsistent scoring on this team and earth to Houston its not "don't feed the ball to Yao it's someone else make a F^^^n' SHOT or go to the hole. You don't have to shoot from the lot the whole game....go to the rack!
Haha are you serious? You rather have Von Wafer create his own shot in the crunch time? I rather have Brooks or Artest handle the ball at the last minute. This is why we need Tracy McGrady. Von Wafer can make shots when he is open. But this guy is an idiot with the basketball. His IQ is low and maybe that is the reason why he cannot stay with one team throughout his career.
Funny, feeling so weak about your own statement that you need to label people having other opinion? Well, just check the post game quotes, RA, AB, Ron all said they need to do a better job in finding Yao in the fourth. Battier said it's their fault not giving it to Yao in 4~5 occasions when they have chance. Guess they are from China as well?
minny fronted again. how did yao and the team do? i'd be interested to hear some comments. (it should happen in the post-game thread, but unfortunately that thread became garbage.)
If Yao is guarded by 2 guys, just use all the attention he is getting to get a good shot elsewhere. /thread DD
I noticed it late in the 4th and the Rockets tried to work it back to the other side...Yao tried to pin and hold. It really is a quickness thing, and the weakside help off the ball is almost unfair (would be illegal D back in the day). It's going to be a work in progress...and it's definitely the most effective D vs the Rockets at this time. The Rockets didn't totally bog down because they abandoned the effort earlier in the clock and the others guys went to the whole. If the defender is fronting Yao, there will be plenty of opportunities for offensive rebounding and plenty of room in the lane to get there with less help defense.
Yes, because I fully expect our own players to verbalize the concession that the team's best player can be neutralized and they should look for scoring elsewhere. Brilliant.
So are you suggesting that they're lying? I see the other way. Clearly it's difficult to get Yao the ball when he's fronted. But you work to find a solution. It's easier to say just running away from Yao and reaching for *other option*. But we haven't seen any *other option* worked. I think the team is smart enough to know what's their best chance and work for it. Tonight's game they clearly tried. I'm more than happy to see that.
agreed. the solution is not going away from yao. when you have a problem, you don't try to avoid it or take a detour. i think they need to continue working on it. tonight is a good start. i see the ice started to thaw a little bit.
If teams have to commit 2 guys to him, or even one fronted guy, it leaves the baseline WIDE open for a drive.... There are cracks all over that defense, just got to take advantage of them. DD
