Stevie the Choke Artist - Last 10 games

Both Steve and Yao are sucking right now.

The team has collapsed, it is like they fell with Iraq.

DD

 

Did I just see a pig fly by, I must have, because I'm about to agree with DaDa...

We wanted team ball and we got it. These losses have truly been a team effort. It is just a shame that the team has to collectively suck at the same time. It is unfair to place blame on one person and I'll never give up on the Rockets or the players that come to play for the team. Besides this is the NBA after all, I have seen some pretty strange things happen over the years, so as long as there are still games left I have hope (I know... denial is and awful thing).

 

That pig's wearing pajamas and flying in formation with the other pigs... but not very well. One pig does a loop-de-loop and the other pigs clap while they try to stay in formation. A couple of the pigs collide and the next thing you know chaos brings them all tumbling to the ground. Squatting in their filth, the pigs gaze up at the 8 adequate to perfect formations flying off to the great year-end pig pow-wow. Shaking their piggy faces, they contemplate another summer of wondering about what might have been.

Meanwhile, the owner of the unfortunate pigs looks at them from afar... wondering if the pigs need a new diet, some new companions, a complete overhaul, or a new farmer to show them the way to piggy glory. Time will enlighten us.

 

Yao Ming has disapeared, and SF, is still around thoug wishing he was back in the showers. The last couple of games, are the kind of games that make me sick of the NBA.

 

I see you guy's point, Juggie, and I agree wholeheartedly with it.

Francis' effectiveness can only be fully realized given one condition. There can only be two options on Francis' team. . Not one, not three, but just and only two. Why? Francis can't dominate like T-Mac. So he can't run a one man show. Francis can't lead the team to the playoffs with a 3rd option like Yao on the team who takes away his shots. That reduced Francis' effectiveness so much that he's gonna suddenly play like a role player in the last ten games! and that's a fact Jack. That's not fair, Francis is a victim of Yao's emergence, despite Yao shoots better from the field, Francis should take all the Yao's shots and score 30 a game as a point guard, yeah you hear me, a new age, no need to make plays but score type of PG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what to do now? The collapse of the Franchise makes us the Francis only fans run around in circles like a bunch of chicken with their heads cut off, I wanna end this terrible image of a 7-6 yellow VAMPIRE that hounds on Francis' back and sucks the blood out of our boy!!!The only way is let's ship out Yao for scrubs, since any quality player that shoots better, can be a third option is corrosive to Francis' game and will lead the team to demise. As we have seen in broad daylight, that a third option that shoots at 50% is detrimental to the team's success unlike Francis, who proved in an Iversonesque style that he needs to shoot as many as possible in order for the team to win!!!!!!!!! No third OPTION please, and dear Jeff, please drive your "Save Our Rockets"van around the city again, initialize Operation Save Our Franchise and Ship out the Big Vampire for the love of the team!

 

True, Yao should not be taking 18 ft jumpers on a consistent bases. Instead, he should be fed the ball 10 ft or closer to the basket. So why do the Rockets not feed Yao the ball in the paint?

2 Reasons:
Reason1 –Yao is usually tripled teamed when he is in the paint
Reason2 - Our guard’s vision, passing, and creative abilities are less then spectacular on offense

So one has to ask, if there are 3 people on Yao doesn't that leave someone open for a wide open 3?

Answer: YES

Solution: Make the opponents pay for double/triple teaming Yao

So how do we do that?

Get some guys who can shoot the outside shot (3 point specialist). When Yao is on the floor we should have at least 2 or more players who can hit the three-point shot, ON A CONSISTENT BASES. This would force our opponents defense to guard all the way out to the 3 point arc. This would open up the painted area and simplify the process of feeding Yao the ball.

Simply put, Yao is not dominating 18 feet out. However, when Yao is in the paint he is worth every penny of the #1 draft pick. We need to figure out a way to feed him closer to the basket.

 

Nice roll

My take: Steve is our best player and two-time all-star. Yes others are sucking too, but it is his job to manage to squeze a few wins out when everyone else is sucking. That is what a leader and "franchise" player does. The funny thing is I think Steve is a more physically talented and skilled (Steve is stronger, has better hops, is more explosive, and shoots better) individual player than Marbury--Marbury's edge has been mental, his greater tenacity and team orientation. 1 year ago I never imagined I would EVER say Marbury came up against another point guard with even more individual talent than him but one even less apt at being a team player.

 

I hope you are kidding? Steve might have better hops but that is about it. Have you seen Marbury play this season?

 

I could care less about Steve's scoring average or touches if we win - unlike Yao fans who even when we win complain because Yao didn't get enough shots. I am just frustrated because this team has looked rudderless offensively the entire second half of the year and in big games it show up. You have to know what kind of team you are and where you go for points. All of the top teams in this league know who their bread and butter is. In a big game, you know who on that team is going to get the shots and carry the team. They don't rely on one of a group of scorers to hopefully come up big and help them win. Average players can't be depended on to score when the pressure gets high.

It seems to me that we try 75 percent of the time to put the ball in the post, we don't consistently get points. Most of the time, Yao may get hot and score three or four baskets in a row, but then he seems to get tired and starts slinging up fadeaways. And his low post position gets worse and worse as the game goes on. To be effective, your low post game has to score in the paint and get stronger as the game goes on - not weaker.

So, I think it would be better to pull Yao out of the paint sometimes and allow the guards to drive and dish to him for some open jumpers. Free him up a bit. And at the same time keep our other offensive threat sharp.

Watch Phoenix if you can. See the absolute havoc that Starbury is putting on opposing defenses because it's so damned hard to defend the guy. And Amare still gets his share of touches. Still everyone on that team knows who the number one option is and where the ball goes when they need a bucket.

I just don't believe that Yao has the dominant scorers mentality that it takes to run an offense through the post. There are only two people in the league that do it now - Shaq and Duncan - and both of them are relentless physical scorers that get better as the game wears on. If you single cover them they will consitently get to the heart of your defense for dunks or five foot shots.

I have seen in Steve that mentality to consistently get to the heart of a defense and get layups. Steve is a better scorer than Yao right now. So why wouldn't you try to score with your best scorer? Show me another team in the NBA that doesn't use their best scorer as their number one option?

 

if I am not mistaken, Francis is passing the ball way more after the all-star break.... why not run for open looks? I bet he will pass the ball to the open man..... though I agree last time he used to not pass.... but Francis had changed..... and that's the truth...

 

Do you call ugly dribbling endlessly and then throw up a brick at the end of shot clock YAO BALL?

We never take the ball out of steve's hands. He's the PG, isn't he suppose to have the ball all the time to make smart decision.

When we're actually play Yao ball (AKA team ball) for maybe 3 or 4 games, we win all the games in huge margin. I.E. beating Utah in utah last time, flat out storm the kings, ousts the new jersey nets,etc.

You can't just shove the ball to Yao Ming and just stand around and waste many perfectly good passes from him. If Yao ball is run correctly, Yao Ming delivers the ball to the cutting guy, and that guy hits a easy layup or a jam. (I.E. no look ove the shoulder pass to Moochie for an easy layup, bounce pass to Posey for a easy jam)

There's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH PUTTING THE BALL IN Yao's hand more. The only thing wrong is the team doesn't know how to take advantage of his talents yet. They'll learn.

Juugie, You're an idiot don't understand Bball at all.

I say the Rox still need time to learn to play with each other. There's no doubt they will have to play Yao ball (AKA team ball) to win consistently.

 

How can u say steve change? change is a full 180 degrees,that includes the mental as well, tell me gllyde has he done a total change?

Steve is the leader. he suppose to lead. 26 doesn't make u young, he is practically an adult male. He must apperently make decsions (oops) like a young guy

4 years with no play-offs is unexcuseable.it really is. And now we got a center and don't take full avantage of his basketball IQ or his game.Why the heck is that? Steves the only answer to that.He an't worth 90 million dollars,shoot he's worth must less than that. we should have never pay him if he couldn't garentee(oops) play-offs. Bottom line we got a leader whos nick name should be streetchise untill he earns his current nick.

I am so sick and tired of seeing him skip ,dribble so long as if time just creap along slowly.

damn steve, a good all-star is more than scoring points, u gotta pass ,pass, and not make dumb mistakes.u are getting paid 90 million,i say for every game the team loses u pay the fans $100 each.I an't playing. The ball is in ur court. What you going to do if ur nickname got stripped from u?

 

QUOTE]Originally posted by Juugie
I could care less about Steve's scoring average or touches if we win - unlike Yao fans who even when we win complain because Yao didn't get enough shots. I am just frustrated because this team has looked rudderless offensively the entire second half of the year and in big games it show up. You have to know what kind of team you are and where you go for points. All of the top teams in this league know who their bread and butter is. In a big game, you know who on that team is going to get the shots and carry the team. They don't rely on one of a group of scorers to hopefully come up big and help them win. Average players can't be depended on to score when the pressure gets high.

It seems to me that we try 75 percent of the time to put the ball in the post, we don't consistently get points. Most of the time, Yao may get hot and score three or four baskets in a row, but then he seems to get tired and starts slinging up fadeaways. And his low post position gets worse and worse as the game goes on. To be effective, your low post game has to score in the paint and get stronger as the game goes on - not weaker.

So, I think it would be better to pull Yao out of the paint sometimes and allow the guards to drive and dish to him for some open jumpers. Free him up a bit. And at the same time keep our other offensive threat sharp.

Watch Phoenix if you can. See the absolute havoc that Starbury is putting on opposing defenses because it's so damned hard to defend the guy. And Amare still gets his share of touches. Still everyone on that team knows who the number one option is and where the ball goes when they need a bucket.

I just don't believe that Yao has the dominant scorers mentality that it takes to run an offense through the post. There are only two people in the league that do it now - Shaq and Duncan - and both of them are relentless physical scorers that get better as the game wears on. If you single cover them they will consitently get to the heart of your defense for dunks or five foot shots.

I have seen in Steve that mentality to consistently get to the heart of a defense and get layups. Steve is a better scorer than Yao right now. So why wouldn't you try to score with your best scorer? Show me another team in the NBA that doesn't use their best scorer as their number one option? [/QUOTE]

Show me an example that a player is not the No.1 option when he shoots whenever he wants to and take the most shots? Beside, Chris Webber didn't get last shots as the King's best player.

You say you feel that 75% of Yao's post play doesn't get points. That's just your feeling. I feel Yao's post up play is the best play for the Rockets. Francis and Mobley's isos don't create as many opportunities for the teammates unlike Yao's iso post up play. Their street ball style isos comes at the benefit of team play. Good things happen when Yao gets the ball.

Second, you need to prove that the shots that Francis didn't take are taken away all by Yao. As I recall, other Rockets have been taken more shots with the season progressing as well. Griffin, Posey to name a few. It's not only Yao that takes away shots. Then, prove that Kenny Thomas is a worse player than James Posey, which is related directly to the Rocket offense in the second half of the season. In a nutshell, prove that the Rockets regression in the later half is because Yao took away Francis's shots, and Yao post up play isn't as beneficial as Francis' iso play.

Also, is there any stats on your part to suggest that the Rockets offense is worse in the later half of the season than the first? Or you are just conjecturing? It's our perimeter defense that has been going downhill over the course of the season, and a big part of that goes to Francis getting burned by opposing pgs.

Your point of using Yao is valid. That pulling Yao out and let the guards drive and dish to him for open jumpers sounds good, but you forget one thing. The Rocket guards, including Francis, isn't
good at passing the ball back out to open players when they are driving to the basket. Those two are like 100 meter runners, when start, never look back. Concentrating on guard isos, particularly with two players with average court vision and subpar passing abilities is to advocate one man basketball, a formula for last four year's failure.

Francis is a better individual scorer than Yao is, but he's not dominant enough to carry the team night in and night out. So we'd better win through team work - that is, through inside-outside.Francis lacks in the teamwork department in his game, and he's gonna play even worse defense if he uses more energy to try to dominate on the offensive end, the worst part is that Francis isn't a guard that's dominant enough to consistently carry the team on his back. Francis goes through hot stretches and cold stretches in a game, throws up prayers, commit high TOs, makes bad decisions... we just can't consistently win with Francis' one on one play.

Also, it's very misleading to say that Francis has been coaxed or pressured by the fans to involve someone more. Francis and Mobley both acknowledged that things are much easier with the inside-outside approach. Are you saying that they are liars?

Marbury is smarter, savvier, a better play maker, and he steps up as a leader. He is an upgrade over Francis right now. So quit comparing Marbury to Francis. Marbury is a point guard that can score, Francis is a shooting guard playing the point. Francis' iso points often comes at the expense of team flow, Marbury and Yao's isos plays are equal or better than Francis isos because they can involve their teammates. Yao should take away some of Francis' shots becuse he shoots a higher percentage.

If you want Yao to post up, but you think Yao post up too much, which takes away from Francis effectiveness. I wonder would you say the same thing about other role players when they touch the ball more, why don't you make a case for them when they touch the ball? Come show a little consistency. Posey is shooting a lot more than before lately.Maybe he should hand over the rock to Francis and make money without working.

 

LAST TIME PEOPLE...

I want the Rockets to win. i want them to have the most effective offense for them. In my opinion, Yao does not consistently score in the post right now. Taller stronger players give him fits. He'll get better I'm sure.

The idea of giving Yao the ball and having him pass off for layups is great except for the fact that the zone defense basically makes it impossible because you have most of the defenders in the paint. So that leaves Yao to either try to back his way in, which I'm sorry, he has not shown he can consistently do, or try to shoot over the top.

I agree, having guys flash and cut makes for some pretty basketball. And then in the playoffs, the Lakers hit that style with a two man scoring tandem and send it home. This is the NBA and until proven otherwise, you have to have a dominant scorer to win a championship. You have to have someone that can take over a game by himself offensively. Don't take my word on it. Look over the last ten years. The Lakers have two. The Bulls had one. The Spurs have one. The Rockets had one.

If you believe that Yao has the game and the temperment to consistently cut through a defense and be an unstoppable force offensively then I say great. Build your offense around him. If not, then you look somewhere else. Great scorers have to be selfish - to a point. Hell, people used to say that Jordan was selfish. And I hope you and other Yao fans are right and he develops a killer instinct offensively and get a fire i his eye that he's taking the ball to the rack no matter what and that no one's going to stop him.

I have not seen that to be his personality. He seems to try hard but he also seems to shy away from the contact down low sometimes. But, like I said. I hope you're right because it will be great for the Rockets.

And as for rvpals saying that I'm an idiot that doesn't know anything about bball, I've been watching basketball and loving it long before Yao Ming came to America - unlike you. I've seen "The Next Great Things" and "The Next Jordans" and "The Next Shaq's" come and go. I've seen rookies come in and have great first years and show promise and have people saying that player would change the game only to find out that the rookie year was pretty much as good as it gets. And then, "The Next Big Thing" rolls through. So, forgive me if don't fall down in awe of Yao Ming's greatness as I should. I know that LeBron James will come in next year, and all of the attention given to Yao will switch over to LeBron, and unless Yao REALLY ups his game - like taking his scoring average up to 20 ppg and getting 10 rpg - he will go back to being a good center prospect that could help the Rockets and has a chance to develop into a star. And I will still be watching my team play and praying for them to win. And maybe, hopefully, we can stop hearing things about this player should carry the offense because of this or that and we can just ask ourselves, who is our best offensive player and then get him the ball.

PS. People said that throwing the ball down to Hakeem was ugly and stupid basketball. But watching through those championships, it sure as hell was beautiful to me.

 

expecting a player/person to change TOTALLY is IMPOSSIBLE..... it takes a long time to change 180degrees....

the main thing is, Francis is willing to change.... if he don't even make any changes at all, then Flame him all u want.... but this season is the first REAL season he is playing against ZONE.... ISO did it for him the year we got the best record but not playoff....

this season is a little different for him..... it is until after ALL-Star break did he start trusting his teamates and pass the ball a lot more.... Changing can't be done in a few months time.... it takes longer than that.....

having said that, if next season he still play like this, it is unforgivable.... though I believe he and Yao will really play well like a team next season......

 

yeah Juugie made a classic mistake on this board. he criticized yao. the problem is the fans/media/coaching/whatever essentially castrated steve francis in the second half of the season. give the ball to yao, yao is you're best player, run the O through yao, you don't deserve to lead the offense and take it over. well you know, steve was our primary option up until 3 games after yao/shaq I. we were 23-18 at that point. then people got pissed after the chicago loss and the 3 game losing streak and said start giving it to yao and we did. and since then we've gone an awesome 17-21. yao isn't as dominant as y'all would love to think and running the offense through him isn't as pretty as you think. no one doubles yao (except for the clippers and celtics) when he posts on the left block. whoever feeds the post always cuts through, however teams know we're looking for that pass now and it is never open anymore. then yao starts trying to back his man down, which he can't, and since there is no double team there is no one open to pass to and start ball movement, and then yao is left to take his 13-15 foot turnaround and he isn't hitting it. steve is easily more adept at getting his shot off at this point in his career. he can do his pull up 17 foot jumper on any point guard in the game and it rarely even gets challenged, much less blocked. he can drive on any point guard in the game, and he can finish around the rim with the best of them. yao cannot dominate his man unless his turnaround is working and it hasn't been for a while. his only other generally effective move is that little pick thing we do where we swing it to eddie up top who feeds yao about 5 feet from the basket and he hits a hook shot. but people are getting better at jumping that play too. pretty much, the offense can get more stagnant running through yao than it does running through steve.

and the whole yao is a rookie thing? please. he's never a rookie when we want the offense run through him, but he sure is when it comes time for who should get blamed for not stepping up. fact is, when we let steve do his thing while involving yao more (as we did in december) we were a better team than when we started letting yao be the primary option to start off games and when he's in the game. you want steve to involve everyone and not shoot as much but then you want him to squeeze out a few more wins when everyone is sucking. so do you want him to dominate scoring wise or try to get sucking teammates involved.

until yao improved more, this should've stayed steve's team, but i guess it's too late for that now.


oh and re: jordan making playoffs, he made them with i believe 31 and 40 (or 42) wins 2 times. if the rocks win two of their last 3, steve will have had 42+ twice and more than 31 another time. difference is we're in the most badass conference ever.

and that is not to in anyway say steve is better than mj, because he ain't, just saying times are a little different.

 

The Rockets collapse is not about Yao or Stevie. If they last two games showed us anything, is that this team does not have any consistent scoring and outside shooting off the bench. Our bench basically sucks. Moochie can't score (especially from the outside), Griffin has the ugliest shot in the NBA, Taylor can't make a basket outside of 10 feet, the only thing Cato can do is dunk, and the rest of the Rockets bench barely belongs in the NBA (Morris, Collier, Hawkins, Maddox). Who knows about Nachbar since he never sees the light of day. Rice is a good shooter, but he is such a defensive liability Posey gets most of the minutes at this position.

Earlier in the season, I thought that the Rockets had a deep bench. They might be deep, but the depth is at the wrong positions. Before I would go off and trade Francise, Mobley, etc., why don't we sign some quality VETERANS who know what winning in the NBA is all about and let all of this trash go. Rice doesn't cut it for veteran leadership. Most of the Rockets bench are Rudy T's projects, which haven't panned-out.

 

Yes I watch Marbury and I know his game pretty well. I am not saying he isn't athletically gifted, he probably is the 2nd most athletically gifted PG in the league.

However Steve doesn't just have better hops, he is more physically opposing (stronger, better body control in the air, and probably greater outright speed). He also his a much better 3 point shooter (career and this year), over his career he shoots better from the field and FT (they are close to identical this year). He also gets more rebounds, steals, blocks and gets fouled more and is more efficient in his shooting (points per shot)--whether you look at this year or over his career.

Steve may be the only point guard who can say this in the league, but yes he is more explosive and physically dominant than Marbury. When Francis is "on" he is completely unguardable and the hardest PG in the league to deal with. To me the difference is Marbury is a better player than Francis when both are "not on". Marbury edge is mental--he is more disciplined (fewer TO's, fewer dumb plays, more steady itensity, better at defensive positioning, better at being the right spot on the floor) and better able to get his teammates involved when his scoring is down (evidenced in assists, getting his team organized).

Again the reason Marbury is the better player right now than Francis is because despite Steve's slightly greater physical aptitude Marbury has mental, discipline and team comittment edges (the latter I never dreamed I would say this as an edge for Marbury over anyone)--Steve has no one to fault for this but himself.

 

Intresting comment:
Marbury edge is mental--he is more disciplined (fewer TO's, fewer dumb plays, more steady itensity, better at defensive positioning, better at being the right spot on the floor) and better able to get his teammates involved when his scoring is down (evidenced in assists, getting his team organized).

Isn't this what we want from our point guard? To me this is a huge edge and advantage