Steve = Oil, Ming = Water

Of course everyone knows the trade deadline has passed, and this team is fixed for the remainder of the season. All of us can read except you. I've explicitly mentioned AFTER the current season has finished, we should explore options of trading ANY player except Yao Ming to improve this team.

I'm glad that you are open to future trades regarding Mr Steve "Franchise". But I think some are against this idea because they are adamant that since Steve is trying, we shouldn't trade him. That is a pretty weak argument, don't you agree?

What about you? Do you sincerely believe Steve Francis and Yao Ming are ideal for each other? Can't you see that Steve Francis's game has suffered under Jeff Van Gundy's half court inside-out offense? Can't you see that it's ill suited for his ISO style of playing? Can't you see that Steve Francis's ego is struggling with having to defer to Yao Ming as the #1 scoring option? Can you therefore see that such struggles are bad for the team chemistry and a major reason why they have been inconsistent this year?

Can you agree that Jeff Van Gundy's old team, the NY Knicks put the Center (Patrick Ewing) as it's primary scorer, and he is also trying to implement this system with Houston? How successful has this transition been? Is Yao Ming the #1 scoring option currently? Based on this criteria, Would you rate it as a success? or a failure so far? Despite having a dominant center like Yao Ming, we are only 3 games ahead of last year. Do you think we're performing up to the talent level of this team? Why do you think JVG has refused to give an assessment with this team's progress so far?

The coach, the media, the fans, and even the players, know now that passing the ball is crucial to their success. ie, pass the friggin ball to Yao Ming, and they will win. Ignore him, and they will lose.

Knowing, and doing are two different things.
That's why I said, trying and getting it done are two different things.

Steve Francis is OIL. and Yao Ming is WATER. Those two live in two completely different worlds mentally, and physically. They have completely different personalities, and styles.

Now..why don't you answer DonKnutts. Do you agree that Yao Ming and Steve Francis are ideal for each other?

If they are, please give reasons for them.

If not, please explain why you're arguing with me.

THank you.

 

Well, it is not as funny as it sounds. Steve led Rockets to 45 wins in his second season and 43 wins his fourth season in the WEST (steve was injured in his third season). Mr. Allen's team did better than 42 wins only once! If we were in the East conference, we would have been in the playoff. I mean, we own East teams and swept the whole central division in 2001.

Allen joined the west conference last year and guess whose team was better last year and is better this year.

 

Okay, can you name which team had a good high percentage low post threat out of the Bucks and the Rox? We had Hakeem and MoT(playing one of his best years, BTW) in that first 45 win season and 42 we had this BIG Chinese dude...remember him? Steve definitely had something to do with it, but without the low post guys, he would've done worse than Allen.

 

I actually tend to agree with this point. Steve seems to be on the verge of a technical after every foul. Last night, toward the end of regulation, Steve angrily spiked the ball off the backboard after a foul was called on Cato—a less forgiving ref could've T'ed him up right there, in the closing moments of a tight game. How many times do you see Van Gundy on the bench calling out to Franchise like the parent of an impudent teenager, hoping to rein him in... "Steeeeve! Steeeeeve! Steeeeve!"

 

Moreover, when Sonics/Bucks made the trade and everyone thought what a steal by sonics. Well, you all-time favorite trio, Allen, R. Lewis and Barry led the sonics to 26-29 record while Rockets is 32-23. Man, Steve is really hurting the Rockets...

 

I'll make it simple... I think the team has overall had some growing pains, provided it's the coach's first season with the team and the star center's second season in the league. I think that I see improvement, albeit without consistency. I don't think Yao is fully ready to assume the alpha dog role. I think I'll reserve any eulogy for the team as its currently constructed until the offseason, until after Van Gundy's had a full year, until after Houston makes a potential playoff run. I think I've heard every possible reason why Steve is wrong for Houston, ad nauseum, fifty thousand times over. I think you're right, maybe I should avoid getting into discussions like this and just let you guys co-sign each other to infinity. I think I'm done.

 

Great post Yaowsa. Thats pretty much how I feel. Steve doesn't fit on this team. In 2000-2003 I never thought I'd be saying trade Steve because I always thought year after year, "oh he'll get better, just an off year." Its obvious that Steve isn't consistent enough to be the 'Franchise' and isn't versitile enough to play in a system that he isn't the 'Franchise'. Its weird but he's has just enough talent to dominate 'sometimes'. They call that a roleplayer and I don't think Steve will ever accept that. We need someone to come in and know that Yao IS the Franchise and to accept it wholeheartedly. Its got to hurt to be the 'man' for awhile then have it stripped from you by some new young stud. Poor Steve. Oh well, I'm sure that 85+million they paid him will help him get over it.

 

Cassell and Robinson are better a Hakeem in his last year and a Yao in his first year. Hakeem was injured a lot in his final season here and it was so painful to watch his decline that most of us wished he had retired early. Yao did well as a rookie but he was an average center in his rookie year (13 ppg, 8 rpg).

BTW, Bucks is having a better record than Sonics.

 

Um, Ray Allen was injured for more than half of that Sonics' 26 - 29 record. From a talent point of view, the Rockets also blow Seattle out of the water, Francis or not.

 

Right Hakeem went down close to the end, but MoT was playing great. What does cassell and robinson have to do with low post play? They played a run and gun shooting-fest. Which team wins like that? To my knowledge only Dallas is successful, yet, not championship caliber even with 5-6 allstars/former allstars. Yao had quite a few good games last year and played horrible at the end...strange, if you noticed, we didn't play well at the end either.

 

right on... a bunch of people were like "get off steve's back he had a great game." i mean... he had an OKAY game, not that great at all.

 

Steve may not have had a "great" game, but I suspect that a lot of people criticizing his poor FG% from the last night's thriller only read the box score. Anybody who watched the 4th quarter and OTs could tell you that, although he wasn't shooting well, Steve was rebounding like crazy, jumping for loose balls, and basically hustling all over the court. He made a bunch of effort plays throughout the extra sessions, not to mention the the fact that he had the the assist that led to a game-tying basket and then made a game-tying three of his own. All of this may not negate his poor shooting performance, but it does help some of us objective fans understand that Steve did a lot of other things to help the team win.

If you can't call it "great," you certainly can't call it "poor." I'm sure people will insist, "Well if Steve didn't shoot so poorly, we wouldn't have been in OT." To which I say: "Well if my uncle didn't have a d*ck, he'd be my aunt." Hypotheticals like that are pointless and counterproductive.

 

The difference of sf's last 3 shot between this game and one against spurs is that sf became smarter than last one. he passed instead of dribbling all the time to the last sec, then eventually he got the ball back when he was open. that's the smarter play. clearly, he learnt it. he is making progress and becoming more and more a team player although he is still making mistakes.

 

No I didn't mean to just say last night. I thought you were extending last night's performance over the course of a year. I was doing the same. If over the course of a season we consistently won with a pg who put up those kinds of numbers people would want him.

Steve's shooting was bad last night. 25% won't get it done all the time. I agree with that, but he did enough other things, that I think he had a good game.

 

Clutch = YOF




just kidding

 

Oil and water? God, whats next.....??

 

I'd like to add Allen had 41 points in an elimination game (Game 6 vs Philly) thus proving is can be a big game player as well.

the guy would be a great fit.

Allen=Drexler Yao=Olajuwon

 

It pleases me to see so many people now open to the idea of moving Steve Francis.

For many, the last lingering shred of loyalty seems to be not performance-based, but rather sentimental. Almost like we owe it to a hard-working nice guy like Steve to let him stay and sort this team out.

For me, Steve is a professional athlete who has already been entrusted to lead this team for almost 5 years now. He has been made the unquestioned leader on and off the court; he has recieved the maximum allowable contract at the first opportunity; he has also been the focal point of the offense for most of his time here.

What has the faith of the Rockets management and fans in Steve ever done for either? He has not produced in the win column, his repeated immature behavior has continued if not grown worse, and worst of all, he seems to have a defiant attitude towards it all...as if to say "I'm going to keep doing it my way" even though HIS way clearly hasn't worked.

Recently, however, it has become increasingly clear that his time in Houston may be running out.

A. Yao has quietly become much more consistent over the last 20 games, and has now overtaken Steve in scoring.

B. Rumors have popped up everywhere about possible deals involving him, and not just on this BBS board.

C. He is having his worst year, is fighting with his new coach, and to top it all off, he proved once-and-for-all how committed he is to leading this team by skipping out to attend the Super Bowl.

So, to all those who respond to each thread about moving Steve as if it were useless garbage, I say READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

The future of this team may very well not include Steve Francis, and for those of us who are Rockets fans, this makes every topic about Life After Francis a relevant, worthwhile discussion.

Seeing complaints about it in every thread is getting old.

 

Gutter,

Has Steve not missed all those shots maybe we don't even go to overtime.

Also, 9 assists in 50 minutes of play is not so impressive. Over the 38 minutes Steve plays, he averages about 6 assists a game. When you think about it, all Steve's 9 assists last night are really just 6 assists with an extra 2.5 for the extra minutes.

Steve Francis is a brainless moron. If he'd eat crow and play the two, and we'd get a real point guard to play 35 minutes a game, we'd be a lot better off.

Bottom line: the Rockets need to quit hammering a square peg into a round hole. Steve Francis just doesn't get it.

P1st,S2nd