Steve not a Superstar?

Well, I don't know if you can call a player a superstar until they have a transcendent moment in the playoffs, and as of yet, Steve has yet to have that moment.

Carter had it last year when he just exploded in Game 2(I believe) versus the Sixers.

Nowitzki had his versus the Jazz last year.

Both Pierce and Francis have yet to dominate a playoff game.

 

There are only a handful of superstars in the league. Just because you make an all-star game doesn't mean you're a "superstar".

 

As much as I like Stevie, he is in no way a superstar, in my opinion, as of yet...Potential superstar, yes...

 

I would trade him for VC, Pierce, Nowitzki or Brand.

 

While I am one of those that believes the Rockets should get another point guard and move Steve to the 2 how do you say some one that puts up Jordanesque like numbers is not a super star?

Vince scores and thats it he plays no defenses and does not rebound. Vince gets compared to MJ a lot but the real comparison should be to Dominique Wilkens.

Peirce is pretty close to super star but are his overall numbers better than Steves? No. Has Peirce had a transcended moment in the NBA? No.

Dirk is a superstar IMO but he is not as much like bird as so many people think. Bird had much better court vision than Dirk and he always new where every player on the court was. Dirk also does not play defense as good as Bird. Dirk is clutch though and I think he is just as good as KG. KG is not as aggressive as Dirk going to the basket. Dirk has already lead his team to the secon round of the play-offs (with little or no help from Finley or Howard) while KG is still trying to get out of the 1st round.

Steve's career numbers so far are close to 20 pts 6.5 assists and 7 rebounds. Thats crazy. Those numbers look like Clyde or MJs ( a little less scoring) numbers. No one else in the NBA puts up numbers like that. Throw in a steal and a half a game for good measure and thats nuts. People are not suppose to be able to do all of that unless your name is Bird or Jordan or Oscar (not Torres). Does anybody relize just how impossible it is suppose to be to? Normal players don't but up those types of numbers only superstars due.

Anyone that would trade Steve for Vince, Pierce or Brand is just crazy because none of those players including air Vince brings to the table the same things that Steve brings. I would have to consider a trade for Dirk but I don't think I would even due that one.

 

VC just doesn't have the fire Francis does. I wouldn't trade Francis for VC. Plays no defense either.
Brand is never going to dominate. I wouldnt trade Francis for Brand either. Brand usually doesn't require a double team in the post.

I would trade Francis for Derk and Pierce.

 

if francis is a superstar, then this is the worst supporting cast in the entire NBA. teams with superstars don't miss the playoffs if they get even reasonable contributions from their teammates. steve francis has never played a postseason game in his life.

i hate having to sound anti-Francis, because i'm not. I truly like the guy...he's my favorite player in the league...but i'm not blind enough to call him a superstar. superstars take their teams to new levels...steve doesn't do that.

 

Moses Malone missed the play-offs with a supporting cast of Calvin Murphy, Rudy T, John Lucas and Robert Reid. That’s a pretty good supporting cast don’t you think? So I guess Big Mo was not a superstar.

Dream missed the play-offs with a supporting cast that included Otis Thorpe, Vernan Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Buck Johnson, Avery Johnson, Carl Harrera, Larry Smith and Sleepy Floyed. That’s another pretty good supporting cast so I guess Dream is not a superstar either.

Thanks for clarifying what makes a superstar. Of course it does not count that Steve lead this team to a 45 win season last year and was the only 45 win team not to make the play-offs in the modern NBA. Of course it does not count that Steve has missed about 20 games this year. And of course we are not counting that their have been many games that we have had 3 or more rookies on the floor at the same time for large parts of the game. And of course it does not count that every starter on this team with the exception of Cato has spent large chunks of time on the bench due to injury.

Thanks again for you clarification on what makes a superstar. Now I am sad that the Rockets have never had a superstar in its existence.

 

The allstar game could be his coming out party. If he can win the MVP of the game or perform real well then he will be changed from a star to a superstar like AI did last year.

 

crash --

two problems with your analysis...the days of moses malone were far different from today. the league is extremely watered down today and 16 freaking teams make the playoffs in a 30 team league!! second, i'm sure you're referring to the 1991-2 season where the rockets were a lottery team. no, they did not make the playoffs that year...but olajuwon missed a good part of that season and was in a feud with management concerning whether or not he had quit on the team or not. that year, olajuwon was not a superstar. like the moses malone era, the early-90's were a different NBA than today, as well.

to date, i have not seen francis perform in a way that i would define as a superstar. there are stars (players who are good and put up good stats) and then there are superstars..players who seemingly transcend the game and make their teams become more than they are. i believe that superstars, particularly in this era of basketball, get their freaking teams to the playoffs.

i must have struck a nerve with you, because your post was extremely sarcastic. again, please understand that i really like francis as a person and as a player. he and EG are probably the only guys on this team that i really like. i think he's a hard worker and i think he can become a superstar inthis league...i simply don't believe he's there yet. i don't consider that to be criticism...the guy is still very young!

woodlands boy -- AI became a superstar last year because he got his team to the NBA Finals...he put an otherwise fairly average team on his back and carried them through the playoffs. with that, he earned the respect of many fans who had previously labeled him a thug. i didn't even remember his all-star performance last year until you just brought it up. the all-star game isn't the event it used to be, where torches were passed from great player to great player.

 

Max,
During Moses Malones days the balance of power was spread much more evenly around the NBA than it is today. Francis is trying to make the play-offs in a conference that has the best 6 or 7 teams in the league. There is no doubt that the Rockets would have been a play-off team last year and a legit finals contender. Also remember that Moses had a team of veteran all stars and hall of famers. Lucas, and Rudy T were very legit all stars and Calvin and Mo were legit hall of famers.

Dream only missed 12 games in 91-92 season and he had a cast that consisted mostly of players that would play a major role on the first championship team. Steve has already missed more twice as many games as Dream did that whole year. As a matter of fact I would challange you to come up with any team that has had the injury bug as bad as this one. To make things worse this is by far one of the youngest teams in the NBA or that this organization has ever put on a floor. And to say Dream had not achived superstar status by 91 is nuts. He had been recognized as the top center in the league for years prior to 91. The superstars of that era included Jordan, Drexler, Malone, Barkley, Ewing and Dream. Jordan was the only player that was better than Dream in that bunch.

My sarcastic response to is due to the comment that if you are a superstar you automatically make the play offs and that is just not true. Perticularly in the West. Say what you want about watered down NBA but the West is as tough as it has ever been top to bottom. The east is another story. And the NBA had already watered down the the play-offs by 91 so that is not an excuse for Dream.

 

Last year's starting frontcourt of Mo Taylor, Walt Williams, and Kelvin Cato was unarguably the worst in the entire league. How Steve and Cuttino managed to win 45 games with that cast of characters still amazes me.

 

Because it doesn't produce Jordanesque results... Steve doesn't (until perhaps the past few games) consistently dominate games like a superstar. Paul Pierce a superstar? Pfft. Dirk Nowitzki, if he isn't one, is close.

Superstars get double-teamed and triple-teamed and still manage to kill you either by still scoring on you or by helping others do so. Superstars can make others around them better. Superstars can be leaders. Superstars are damn-near unstoppable when they need to be.

Superstar players of the past : Hakeem, Barkley, Jordan, Karl Malone, Stockton, Bird, Magic.

Superstar players of today : Vince, Kobe, Shaq, Iverson, Kidd, Payton. (I'm sure there are others)

 

Superstar?? Francis.....NO, Griffin..........YESSSSSSSSSSSS. Just wait and see.

 

I don't want to take anything away from Steve, but Dream did help us get a lot of wins down the stretch.

Also to say Mo Taylor isn't a good player is ridiculous. He could play better defense and rebound more, but in the second half of the season he was averaging around 18 ppg. All-Star? No. Useless? Me thinks not.

OK so what about next year. Steve will prove that he's a superstar and help this team do nice things. We're not going to struggle with our frontcourt next year either. Mo will score as will Griff and KT (assuming we still have him.) They will also pull down a lot of rebounds to help Mo's weaker area. If Cato can contribute like he's doing now consistently that just makes it easier. So my point is we will be in the playoffs next year and Steve will prove that he is a bonafide superstar.

Also I think he will step up for the All-Star game and by outdoing certain players he will make his name. He's already known, but I believe after the game he'll have a little more recognition.

 

Steve was just starting to be a superstar this season when the injuries took over. When the Rockets won five of six to start the season, it was Francis' big fourth quarter shots that led them to victories. After missing 20 games with PF, and having this outbreak of migraines, I think it's fair to give the guy a chance to get back to form. Look at the difference in records between the Steve-less Rockets and the Rockets with Steve.

Without: 1-18
With: 13-12

That's a pretty big difference. The guy does everything on the court except for defense, but he can turn that on when he really wants to, like at the end of overtime yesterday when he forced Baron Davis into those horrible jumpers.

Gary Payton didn't lead his team to the Finals until his seventh season, and he had a solid superstar to play with. Steve can't carry this team, he needs help. Griffin will provide that big presence. If Cuttino continues to play smart basketball, he will be a big help too.

Hell, even the flopping bastards of Utah didn't make it far into the playoffs until 1994. Give Steve a chance. This team would be in the playoffs if he hadn't been hurt, and if his supporting cast hadn't underachieved in his absence.

Some of you have forgotten just how big of a difference this guy makes to the team. He gives them a winning confidence that Cuttino simply can not provide.

There is no way you can call Nowitski a superstar, and not Steve. Yes, he has made it to the second round of the playoffs, but his team has also had some time to gel, and they have a better coach in the offensive department. Steve is a superstar. The stats and winning precentages prove it.

 

DoD, what kind of statement is that? Not even Jordan producing Jordan like numbers could produce the same results with out the veteran cast he had that consisted of:
Bill Cartwright, Horace Grant, Scottie Pippen and John Paxon for one set of championships and Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen for the other. Those were all star caliber players that were also veterans.

What does Steve have to work with? Cat, Cato and a bunch of rookies. Last year Steve helped carry this team to 45 wins in the west which would have been good for 55 wins in the east. In the east Steve would have been challenging for the eastern conferance championship.

How can you name Vince as a superstar and not Steve? Steves all around numbers are much more impresive than Vinces. Vince Carter is a one trick pony. He disapears in most of his play off games. The Rockets were certainly heads and tails better than Toronto last year.

 

ZRB 13-12 is not that good a record.

Think of it this way, if you put Steve on the Wizards and Michael Jordan on the Rockets who would have the better impact?

If you answered other then Jordan's team you need serious help.

DD

 

I wish there was a definition of superstar in Webster's Dictionary. Then we would all know if Stevie was a superstar, based on the definition anyway.