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Steve Haters: Shut Up

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by TheReasonSF3, Oct 30, 2002.

  1. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    A 3 guard lineup getting less than 10 assists is sad.

    Whether Francis was the "PG" or the "SG" last night is more or less irrelevant-he dominated the ball. The fact he was in the game at the same time as Moochie means little in that respect-Moochie clearly wasn't the guy running the offense, whether you saw the game, or you saw the box score (was it like 2 assists in 36 mins?) Using the logic of he was a 2 so getting 4 assists (and having an AST/TO ratio of below 1) is dandy is just avoiding the reality.

    I'm basing this on this game, preseason, and last season-I'm beginning (well, not just beginning) to doubt Francis' ability to run the offense. I sure as hell doubt Moochie's ability to be a starting PG, and am fervently against going small with 6-3 and 6-4 guys on the wings.

    Blame guys missing shots and whatnot, but Francis doesn't get "easy" assists. He doesn't find the guy wide open under the basket, or in perfect stride to the basket. I recall a pass to Eddie where was forced to turn awkwardly after receiving a pass, and didn't have a good angle on the bucket. Eddie missed the bucket. Although Steve made a pass, and to the right guy-it was just too late. This is not him being selfish or anything-this is lack of pure instinct, or maybe trust that guys like Miller and Kidd have, just like he has the 40 inch vert they'll never have.

    Maybe something will go off in Francis' head (not a migraine), and he'll suddenly learn to pass the instant there's an opening. If not, we better hope we can run the offense through Yao, or it will become necessary to bring in a PG-either moving Cat to the bench or even trading him or Steve. It's not to this point yet, but this season could tell us a lot about our future.
     
  2. codell

    codell Member

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    Koudos on your post. Very objective and well put.

    I feel the same way. Steve is being critized, but what you said is so true. Is it fair to critize him not utilizing a skill that apparentley, hes never had to begin with or might never have? It would be the same as critisizing a Kelvin Cato for not scoring 20ppg. To me, you either have court vision or you dont. Its not a learned skill. What we see with Steve is what we are going to get. Hes not going to, all of the sudden, turn into a Payton/Stockton/Kidd/Miller or to a lesser extent, a Baron Davis as far as his passing goes.

    Its up to Rudy to intall a system that maximizes the skills Francis has rather than one that depends on something the he doesnt have.
     
    #142 codell, Oct 31, 2002
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2002
  3. studogg

    studogg Member

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    My point exactly NIKE. Damn good job. Damn good job.


    We are not Steve hater's, at least I am not, I just have a feeling he may not be able to run the offense the way we need it. If this season it never clicks, and I would give him the whole season, I would feel it necessary to move him to the 2 and try and find a true passing point. But don't get me wrong, nothing could be better than Steve lighting up the opposition with points and assists as a premier point guard.

    I want steve at the point, will it work?
     
  4. studogg

    studogg Member

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    Before i get jumped on for "I would give him the whole season" let me clarify.

    If during the course of the season, the offense never meshes and steve is only able to rack up points and we rack up losses, I would not make a major change to personel other than trying to get a passing point, most probably at the expense of Mobley/ or if someone's stock on the team rises that would be more favorable to the Rockets.
     
  5. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Member

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    Ok i got a question for you Steve bashers....say the Rockets come out next game and solve their offensive woes from opening night, play great, fluid ball (i.e. using the 5man offense mixed w/ some isos), and Steve still gets 35+ pts with a handful assists as the Rockets kill the Nuggets, lets say 100-85. Are u STILL gonna say..."Oh, he shouldve passed more and gotten his team involved...he didn't have enough assists...he's just padding his stats....we need someone like Jason Kidd....he put up WAY too many shots, etc, etc, ETC."

    Because quite honestly, this is getting really old.

    5 pages to mostly criticize one of the only guys who showed up with any intensity last night. :rolleyes:
     
  6. BigM

    BigM Member

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    steve is not a natural point guard. he doesn't pick up things as quickly as a magic johnson, a john stockton, or even andre miller. he needs more practice time running a team than these guys. he picked up the position for the first time in the nba. didn't play it in highschool, didn't play it in college. from what i can tell, when he gets a consistent lineup around him, ie: guys he's comfortable with, guys he's practiced with, he makes it flow and things look smooth as hell. if you take blocks of time out of this years preseason games, you can see that he does have legit passing talent. he is more than capable at running the offense but he's still learning, as is the whole team.

    i'll admit he's not the ideal point guard to surround with new talent and players, but that's what we have. he doesn't adjust to them quickly. what you can see for now is what he does when mo's in the game, or cat, or kt, or rice. he knows where they are every minute. is it because they're buddy, buddy? no he's familiar with em.

    anyways what makes up for this current shortcoming, is the fact that he's as explosive a player as the league has. he also plays with his heart and leaves it all on the court. you can never accuse him of not wanting to win. imo, with the glimpses he's shown, and it's been alot, plus the talent he has, you give him slack and wait for this team to gel. THEY WILL and we'll be the lucky fans to watch it.

    my main point regarding last night was that this was not a steve francis exhibition. this was a rudy designed offense to give the rockets a chance to win with so many guys out. simple as that. has steve ever taken that many shots before? no, there was a reason for it.
     
  7. Stylez

    Stylez Member

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    Originally posted by NIKEstrad
    Francis has NO offense to run. If your coach has no offensive scheme and tells you to go out there and just do smoething to put the ball in the basket and you can get your shot off pretty much at will, where are the assist gonna come from? I said it once and I'll say it again, Stevie is our best player and it is in NO WAY his fualt we lost that game Wed.
     
  8. yahooforyao

    yahooforyao Member

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    WAIT A MINUTE!!!... ok, if STEVE SHOT LIKE 48 PERCENT OF HIS SHOTS...AND MADE THEM..THEN WHAT DIFFERENCE WOULD IT MAKE IF ANOTHER TEAMMATE SCORED THE SAME POINTS? POINTS ARE POINT AND NO MATTER HOW WE GET THEM..THE NET RESULT WILL HELP THE TEAM..I DONT THINK WE WOULD OF WON IF SOME ONE ELSE SCORED THE POINT'S THAT STEVE SCORED. ITS NOT LIKE THE STEVE'S TEAMMATES POINTS HAVE MORE VALUE THEN HIS POINTS. I ALSO THINK FOR YOU GUYS TO DOG STEVE.. IS JUST BECAUSE ITS THE EASIEST BLAME..BECAUSE YA GOTTA BLAME SOME ONE..I DO THINK IF WE PLAYED BETTER DEFENSE WE WOULD OF WON....SO YOU GUYS SHOULD COMPLAIN ABOUT THERE DEFENSE AND THE BIG GUYS.......
     
  9. DavidS

    DavidS Member

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    ***DavidS puts in ear plugs.... what's with all the YELLING!!!....***
     
  10. thedreamisover

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    Anyone that harps on Steve for having only four assists is a fool. he played the 2 most of the game. Sadly, RudyT seems to like Moochie and his playground game bringing the ball up the court.
     
  11. TheReasonSF3

    TheReasonSF3 Member

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    Our offense was horrendous. Rudy's play calling for aweful. It was mostly isos, which Steve ran great.
     
  12. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    We had an entire offseason of Rockets players talking about the new offense. Obviously the Rockets HAD to be doing something. Did Rudy really throw the book away in game 1? Maybe you blame it on injuries, and maybe with KT back, and maybe Rice, all will be well again. We'll see.

    I think you're blinded in your defense of Steve. There's no questioning that he is our best player, and obviously it's not his fault that we were beat by the Pacers. It is questionable whether he's effective running the offense-be it an injured offense or not.

    Look at the Pistons of last year-they went from lotto bound to playoffs almost entirely based off Stackhouse becoming a team player, and the whole having a team concept (and then of course traded him). IMO the Rockets would be better if Francis put up games of 25-10 rather than nearly 40 with only 4 assists.
     
  13. ricerocket

    ricerocket Member

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    On 610, Rudy said they ran motion all game, that it looked like all guard play because of the 3 guards being in the game at the same time. :rolleyes:
     
  14. TheReasonSF3

    TheReasonSF3 Member

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    Rudy did not use his new plays at all. They ran isos all game. Rudy did abandon the motion offense.
     
  15. Moe

    Moe Member

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    Rudy's a tool. If he couldn't see last year that our 3 guard lineup doesn't win games, then he's got some memory loss problems.

    It has been theorized in other threads that Rudy thought he could steal a win with the 3 guard. I remember last year it being a dismal failure.
     
  16. TheReasonSF3

    TheReasonSF3 Member

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    Rudy is a horrible coach.
     
  17. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I think Rudy is a great coach.
     
  18. TheReasonSF3

    TheReasonSF3 Member

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    His play calling sucks. We run isos the whole game.
     
  19. ricerocket

    ricerocket Member

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    That's what not Rudy said on 610. It just looked like ISO's cuz three guards were in there. You just didn't see it right... :rolleyes: ;)
     
  20. TheReasonSF3

    TheReasonSF3 Member

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    No one was moving. It was not a motion offense.
     

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